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Switching to e-cigarettes could save 6.6M American smokers

in.reuters.com

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Re: Switching to e-cigarettes could save 6.6M American smokers

#51

Post by whipoodle »

alexanderstears wrote: post #36

Our society's tendency to moralize or rationalize issues has made it tough to talk about harm reduction. Moralizers focus on the corrosive elements of addiction and rationalizers say that e-cigs are still harmful but they miss the point that many people who smoke e-cigs are better off than they would be if they used cigs to get their nicotine. E-cigs offer a better path to cessation through better control of the nico…

Yes, there is so much public material implying that e-cigs are basically just as bad. It seems so irresponsible to me.

I think in part it's driven by how low-status smoking is these days, to the point that some people even hate the optics of it. It looks like smoking so it must be just as bad, or close.

Re: Switching to e-cigarettes could save 6.6M American smokers

#52

Post by lucidone »

gozur88 wrote: post #46
justin66 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One does not just quit smoking. Plenty of people do.

It used to be most people who quit permanently did so by going cold turkey. That was true even after patches and gums, but I'm not sure if it's still true with vaping. Though I have a theory cold turkey quitting normally happens after a health scare of some variety. My father was a 45 year smoker and quit the day of his heart attack.

I quit smoking cold turkey when it started to interfere with my weight lifting. I wanted a 3 plate squat more than my post workout smoke. YMMV.

Re: Switching to e-cigarettes could save 6.6M American smokers

#53

Post by g00gler »

I was a pack a day smoker for quite a few years and a quality e cig finally made my smoking habit much less compulsive.

I almost made the switch 2 years prior but I wasn't allowed to use it in my private office so I figured what's the point?

Call it habit or whatever but I still can't get as much work done at home when I'm not smoking so I consider it my weekend treat.

Re: Switching to e-cigarettes could save 6.6M American smokers

#54

Post by mistercow »

QAPereo wrote: post #48
mistercow wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source on that claim? I'm pretty sure you're thinking of the cardiovascular effects of smoking , and attributing all of those effects to nicotine, which is incorrect. Everything I've read on the subject indicates that nicotine's role in cardiovascular disease is quite minor.

Sadly... http://www.onlinejacc.org/content/29/7/1422 Edit: To clarify, there is still no contest at all between potential long term harm from smoking, and massively reduced potential for harm from vaping. Sorry for my lack of responsibility in making that point clearly, or at all.

That source appears to back up what I said.

Re: Switching to e-cigarettes could save 6.6M American smokers

#55

Post by j0rd »

QAPereo wrote: post #48
mistercow wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source on that claim? I'm pretty sure you're thinking of the cardiovascular effects of smoking , and attributing all of those effects to nicotine, which is incorrect. Everything I've read on the subject indicates that nicotine's role in cardiovascular disease is quite minor.

Sadly... http://www.onlinejacc.org/content/29/7/1422 Edit: To clarify, there is still no contest at all between potential long term harm from smoking, and massively reduced potential for harm from vaping. Sorry for my lack of responsibility in making that point clearly, or at all.

"Clinical trials of NRT in patients with underlying, stable coronary disease suggest that nicotine does not increase cardiovascular risk. At worst, the risks of NRT are no more than those of cigarette smoking. The risks of NRT for smokers, even for those with underlying cardiovascular disease, are small and are substantially outweighed by the potential benefits of smoking cessation."

NRT: nicotine replacement therapy

Re: Switching to e-cigarettes could save 6.6M American smokers

#56

Post by mistercow »

j0rd wrote: post #55
QAPereo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly... http://www.onlinejacc.org/content/29/7/1422 Edit: To clarify, there is still no contest at all between potential long term harm from smoking, and massively reduced potential for harm from vaping. Sorry for my lack of responsibility in making that point clearly, or at all.

"Clinical trials of NRT in patients with underlying, stable coronary disease suggest that nicotine does not increase cardiovascular risk. At worst, the risks of NRT are no more than those of cigarette smoking. The risks of NRT for smokers, even for those with underlying cardiovascular disease, are small and are substantially outweighed by the potential benefits of smoking cessation." NRT: nicotine replacement therapy

Yeah, they discuss various mechanisms by which nicotine could increase risk, but unless I missed something, every time they look for an actual long term impact, there's no demonstrated risk from nicotine alone.

Re: Switching to e-cigarettes could save 6.6M American smokers

#57

Post by aphextron »

mistercow wrote: post #43
aphextron wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>E-cigs offer a better path to cessation through better control of the nicotine concentrations than cigs do, and e-cigs are probably one of the least harmful ways to get nicotine (and they're certainly cheaper than gum and patches). Alternatively, e-cigs have made nicotine consumption cheaper, faster, more convenient, more socially acceptable, and available at much higher concentrations than tobacco. The aggregate be…

Do you have a source on that claim? I'm pretty sure you're thinking of the cardiovascular effects of smoking , and attributing all of those effects to nicotine, which is incorrect. Everything I've read on the subject indicates that nicotine's role in cardiovascular disease is quite minor.

http://jaha.ahajournals.org/content/6/9/e006579

"Acute exposure to electronic cigarettes with nicotine increases cardiac sympathetic nerve activity in a pattern of heart rate variability that recapitulates the same heart rate variability pattern associated with increased cardiac risk in multiple populations with and without known cardiac disease."

I'm not arguing that e-cigs may not be healthier than smoking tobacco for a current smoker trying to quit. But they are lulling people into a false sense of safety which may be even more dangerous in the long run.

Re: Switching to e-cigarettes could save 6.6M American smokers

#58

Post by gnaritas »

hfourm wrote: post #25
gnaritas wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> vaping definitely isn't healthy That's a bold statement, how exactly is vaping definitely not healthy?

Because you are inhaling foreign chemicals into your lung in higher then normal dosages. How is that a bold statement? People run around vaping like there are zero consequences, but I wouldn't be surprised if research eventually emerges saying certain lower quality fillers/vape mixtures will result in mechanical damage and cancer of the lungs and esophagus. Something similar was apparent with flavoring agents being u…

Lung cancer is known to be caused by carcinogens in smoke, vapor is not smoke, you cannot simply transfer the ills of smoking to vaping just because.

Nicotine alone is not harmful, it's addictive, but not harmful, it's not what causes cancer from smoking.

All apparent evidence is that vaping appears vastly healthier than smoking and there's no reason yet to believe vapor is harmful to the lungs; you breath water vapor all day every day. Calling something "foreign chemicals" might sound scary, but is not a plausible reason to call something definitely unhealthy. The word definitely is very bold, and not remotely justified.

> People run around vaping like there are zero consequences

No, they run around like it's vastly safer than smoking, which it clearly is. There's zero evidence anything to do with vaping has the cancer causing effects of smoke and burnt carcinogens.

Re: Switching to e-cigarettes could save 6.6M American smokers

#59

Post by QAPereo »

j0rd wrote: post #55
QAPereo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly... http://www.onlinejacc.org/content/29/7/1422 Edit: To clarify, there is still no contest at all between potential long term harm from smoking, and massively reduced potential for harm from vaping. Sorry for my lack of responsibility in making that point clearly, or at all.

"Clinical trials of NRT in patients with underlying, stable coronary disease suggest that nicotine does not increase cardiovascular risk. At worst, the risks of NRT are no more than those of cigarette smoking. The risks of NRT for smokers, even for those with underlying cardiovascular disease, are small and are substantially outweighed by the potential benefits of smoking cessation." NRT: nicotine replacement therapy

I’m not arguing that vaping isn’t massively better than smoking, but harmless? That’s a high bar. Edit: you’re correct about my irresponsibility, I apologize and have edited my post.

Re: Switching to e-cigarettes could save 6.6M American smokers

#60

Post by j0rd »

I quit smoking a while ago for 4 months using a vape, then Thailand's military junta banned them and most shops closed.

It's been a couple years now and tonnes of online shops started to sell and I'd see lots of local vapers while having coffee, so decided to give that a go.

It's been a month since I've had a cigarette now since I've started vaping. Energy is up and sense of smell is coming back. Used to smoke a pack a day.

I do run the risk of deportation, jail or heavy fines/bribes if caught with the thing, but I feel it's worth it for health reasons.

Also gov just increased tax from 130THB a pack to 150THB a pack.

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