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Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#151

Post by eip »

kobeya wrote: post #69
KennyCason wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to try very hard to describe this. It will not be enough :) It's more than "fun", much more profound, it's Everything, perhaps the single most important thing. It's ineffable, yet, you still feel obligated to try and explain it, as I'm doing. You may experience total happiness, love, wholeness, but then seconds later experience the exact opposite, total depression, despair, loneliness, humiliation, fear, vi…

Three screenfuls of a run on paragraph does not convince me of a desirable outcome.

> Three screenfuls

What is this? A screen for ants?

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#153

Post by [deleted] »

hutzlibu wrote: post #123
hal9000xp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't need this daily coffee and sugar fix anymore. In the same way, some people just stop being "addicted" to life in general after strong trip. Some of them decide to commit suicide. Just yesterday, I've been in party and one guy told story of his friend who committed suicide after such trip. The big problem with psychedelics is that you can't predict in which way a trip could change you.

"Just yesterday, I've been in party and one guy told story of his friend who committed suicide after such trip." unpleasant theory: maybe in some cases it is even better, that a person just kills himself after a drug-triggered insight - instead of years of drowning everybody around them into their black hole - and still suicide in the end. (or worse, go amok) But sure, I am not saying at all, that this was the case i…

[deleted]

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#154

Post by MAGZine »

tgb wrote: post #117
anythingnonidin wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did any of the following apply? > No current or past history of schizophrenia or other psychotic disorders, no Bipolar I or II disorder, and no first or second-degree (“A second-degree relative is defined as a blood relative which includes the individual’s grandparents, grandchildren, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces or half-siblings.”) relatives with these disorders.3 https://tripsafe.org/how-to-take-lsd/#1-avoid-with…

I really dislike this argument. About 1% of US adults have had schizophrenia in the past year. And 2.6% of the adult population has bipolar. Yet at some point in their life they didn't know they were going to have schizophrenia or bipolar! You're arguing that this only affects people with the condition already but if you can't know if you are predisposed for that, then you have to accept that there's risk. I support…

So you're 500% more likely to have schizophrenia when first-degree relatives are more involved.

Another book cited by the wiki page claimed that 13% of people with one parent, and 50% of people with both parents, are likely to have schizophrenia.

These aren't hard and fast rules. People can experiment, but they should know that if they do psychedelics when first-degree relatives have the condition, then they're more likely to have it themselves.

Just like many other health conditions.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#155

Post by hhhxyxyy »

hutzlibu wrote: post #123
hal9000xp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't need this daily coffee and sugar fix anymore. In the same way, some people just stop being "addicted" to life in general after strong trip. Some of them decide to commit suicide. Just yesterday, I've been in party and one guy told story of his friend who committed suicide after such trip. The big problem with psychedelics is that you can't predict in which way a trip could change you.

"Just yesterday, I've been in party and one guy told story of his friend who committed suicide after such trip." unpleasant theory: maybe in some cases it is even better, that a person just kills himself after a drug-triggered insight - instead of years of drowning everybody around them into their black hole - and still suicide in the end. (or worse, go amok) But sure, I am not saying at all, that this was the case i…

The main insight is more likely that people like you exist, with your immature attitude/ridiculous theory on suicide. I find your kind to be subtly destructive and all too common.

Take care and aloha.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#156

Post by computerex »

openfuture wrote: post #130
computerex wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you accounting for confirmation bias in your anecdotal experiences? There is no "western" perspective, there is only reality and falsehoods. Whilst I am a proponent of meditation and mental health, I don't think prana or qi exist as real physical entities in the real world because their presence has not been detected in reproducible, controlled settings. There are many religions in the world, all of them false wh…

When I say western perspective I'm talking about the words I'm using not some different world... i.e. "cells need nutrition" ... but in meditation I feel a lot of the progress is changing your understanding of what it means to breathe. I kept (unwillingly) redefining the word until it had essentially became synonymous with the concept of "running lines of energy" (to whichever body part I wish to breath into). Ultima…

There is no "subjective science". I am very passionate about science and have a problem with anyone trying to construe something that is not science as science. Science is evidence based reasoning. Anything else is not science, call it whatever you want.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#157

Post by hutzlibu »

hhhxyxyy wrote: post #155
hutzlibu wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just yesterday, I've been in party and one guy told story of his friend who committed suicide after such trip." unpleasant theory: maybe in some cases it is even better, that a person just kills himself after a drug-triggered insight - instead of years of drowning everybody around them into their black hole - and still suicide in the end. (or worse, go amok) But sure, I am not saying at all, that this was the case i…

The main insight is more likely that people like you exist, with your immature attitude/ridiculous theory on suicide. I find your kind to be subtly destructive and all too common. Take care and aloha.

Those are very good arguments you provide ...

It is probably pointless, but to try more arguments, I think the same about you " I find your kind to be subtly destructive and all too common"

The illusionary theory, that every human must be saved at all costs. Only that in reality "by all costs" means very often, that not only one goes down, but also many people around them.

I have seen it too often. And in the end, those persons might indeed still breathe, but more like zombies and not really alive .

Letting go can be less cruel in the bigger picture.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#158

Post by hhhxyxyy »

hutzlibu wrote: post #157
hhhxyxyy wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main insight is more likely that people like you exist, with your immature attitude/ridiculous theory on suicide. I find your kind to be subtly destructive and all too common. Take care and aloha.

Those are very good arguments you provide ... It is probably pointless, but to try more arguments, I think the same about you " I find your kind to be subtly destructive and all too common" The illusionary theory, that every human must be saved at all costs. Only that in reality "by all costs" means very often, that not only one goes down, but also many people around them. I have seen it too often. And in the end, th…

Do you actually have experience with counterculture? Primal instincts based around the idea of dominance prevail as often do in any social hierarchy, and the musings about some type of altruistism surrounding suicide by the commenter to whom I replied reflect this reality.

In short, the counterculture movement is plenty infiltrated with immature and often sociopathic mentalities that heartlessly harass sensitive folks who are at their most vulnerable under the influence of psychedelics. This is rarely discussed but is so prevalent, particularly since the age of exposure aligns with immature phases, adolesence in particular.

In laymen’s terms, it’s a sport to “fuck with” someone who has a “reaction”. Perhaps it’s the suicide victim realizing that, instead of this idea that they are a defective burden saving society from their own black hole via premature self termination, that they are escaping unwanted membership of a vastly primitive species. I assure you, the mentality of the suicidal is quite the opposite of “conventional wisdom” about being a burden, at least in some cases.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#159

Post by hutzlibu »

hhhxyxyy wrote: post #158
hutzlibu wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are very good arguments you provide ... It is probably pointless, but to try more arguments, I think the same about you " I find your kind to be subtly destructive and all too common" The illusionary theory, that every human must be saved at all costs. Only that in reality "by all costs" means very often, that not only one goes down, but also many people around them. I have seen it too often. And in the end, th…

Do you actually have experience with counterculture? Primal instincts based around the idea of dominance prevail as often do in any social hierarchy, and the musings about some type of altruistism surrounding suicide by the commenter to whom I replied reflect this reality. In short, the counterculture movement is plenty infiltrated with immature and often sociopathic mentalities that heartlessly harass sensitive folk…

Dude.

You told me I am imature, because I proposed the theory, that in some(!) cases, it might be better for a suicidal person to just kill himself, instead of everyone around them as well. (I know cases, where persons literally think about the latter, those I referenced)

So what has that to do with psychopaths who take advantage of sensitive persons and possible drive them to death?!?

Not at all related for the sake of the original argument.

But by now I know your type of person well, self-declared enlighted ... high above the " primitive species" below. But unhappy, because the primitive people have the power and therefore drive the enlightened down out of jealously. Yeah, yeah, I know.

Well in that case, what do you think about a very low specimen who is so down, that he hinks about either killing himself, or other's? Save him under all costs and risk him later still killing "enlightened" people? Or accept him choosing to go on his own, now? Why do you care anyway, he's just from a "low species"...

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#160

Post by hhhxyxyy »

hutzlibu wrote: post #159
hhhxyxyy wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually have experience with counterculture? Primal instincts based around the idea of dominance prevail as often do in any social hierarchy, and the musings about some type of altruistism surrounding suicide by the commenter to whom I replied reflect this reality. In short, the counterculture movement is plenty infiltrated with immature and often sociopathic mentalities that heartlessly harass sensitive folk…

Dude. You told me I am imature, because I proposed the theory, that in some(!) cases, it might be better for a suicidal person to just kill himself, instead of everyone around them as well. (I know cases, where persons literally think about the latter, those I referenced) So what has that to do with psychopaths who take advantage of sensitive persons and possible drive them to death?!? Not at all related for the sake…

You come across as suggesting to someone they should self-terminate because it's better that way.
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