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Google and Facebook Have Failed Us

theatlantic.com

101–110 of 191 posts

Re: Google and Facebook Have Failed Us

#101
post #80

If we all such smart people/techies, can we spitball a better breaking news feed algorithm into existence? I'll kick it off - 1. Focus all news on Who? What? When? Where? Omit the "Why?". 2. When in doubt cite the primary news sources (police feeds/courtrooms/local authorities/opposition leaders/pictures/geo tagged and timestamped audio&video feeds with geo tags) 3. Secondary news sources like news orgs and journalis…

Just a comment:

Reputation is key.

Having studied game theory for systems of agents producing results and content, I feel fairly confident in this conclusion: the only reliable long-term design to incentivize beneficient, truthful behavior involves assigning good reputation in return for good behavior, and assigning future rewards/attention based on past reputation.

Based on this, I postulate that any good news feed algorithm must use reputation scores based on past history to choose what to believe and what to show when a new story comes out. Humans of course do this instinctively, which many modern news organizations will have discovered too late as they sell out their integrity, accuracy, and priorities.

Remember what von Neumann said about arithmetic attempts to generate random numbers? Similarly, anyone who attempts to algorithmically determine "truth" based on instantaneous metrics is living in a state of sin.

Re: Google and Facebook Have Failed Us

#102
post #70
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unfiltered results ARE the truth. 4chan is the truth. In the sense that "Someone posted this thing on 4chan." And that's the only truth there is in internet-land: Someone posted something. Is it real? Is it true, what they posted? Or is it "fake news?" You will never know, and you probably shouldn't try to take it that far. Or if you do, at least be able to handle the cognitive dissonance of believing it and not-…

> The only thing you can truly know is what you witness in person. > The good news is, that which you can't witness with your own eyes, rarely has any real effect on your life Not only anti-rationalist and anti-Enlightenment, but you're even disagreeing with object permanence!

> Not only anti-rationalist and anti-Enlightenment, but you're even disagreeing with object permanence!

And not even "not only" that, it also veers into the dirty movement of muddying the waters of responsible reporting, into a discussion of "what is truth really?". When "nothing is true", every venue from 4chan to infowars is equal in its non-truth to AP/Reuters/WaPo/NYT/Atlantic/etc.

When all media is fake, listening to Alex Jones talk about water supplies making children gay is somehow legitimized.

Re: Google and Facebook Have Failed Us

#103
post #11

I think there's already too much filtering. People need to make up their own minds regarding what is true and what isn't, what's worth their time and what's bullshit, which links to click on and which to avoid. If people can't handle this then we need to spend more money on education, or just accept that some people disagree with us. I don't think aggressively filtering "untrustworthy" content will lead to a net bene…

You can't just decide what is true.

Think back to the US election you can't just "decide" that the story of thousands of Ohio ballots pre-marked for Hillary Clinton was true. http://www.snopes.com/clinton-votes-found-in-warehouse/

You can't just decide that the story of a protester with a rape Melania was true http://www.snopes.com/2016/11/14/melania-sign-at-anti-trump-...

You can't just decide for yourself that climate change isn't true.

The consequences of people deciding for themselves would be globally disastrous.

Re: Google and Facebook Have Failed Us

#105
post #11

I think there's already too much filtering. People need to make up their own minds regarding what is true and what isn't, what's worth their time and what's bullshit, which links to click on and which to avoid. If people can't handle this then we need to spend more money on education, or just accept that some people disagree with us. I don't think aggressively filtering "untrustworthy" content will lead to a net bene…

If we simply leave it up to people, we already know the outcome. Some, maybe even a lot of people will take fabricated lies as facts and proceed to engage other people with these facts, sometimes violently. By doing that we are empowering the people who fabricate lies to move an agenda. It's ridiculously cheap to make fake news and the value gained is immense because people are having a hard time filtering it themsel…

We've always lived in a world where the best liar wins. The best liar is in the Whitehouse, we still live in that world today.

The preoccupation with objective truth is a relatively recent notion, and only of interest to what appears to be a minority of the population. The rest are happy to have their biases confirmed, it doesn't much matter whether it's true.

The difference between now and 30 years ago, is that now if someone actually cares about getting to the bottom of something, the tools for doing so are much more accessible, making the ongoing prevalence of bullshit that much more frustrating. We're not getting any stupider, but the gap between the informed and the disinformed or uninformed has widened substantially.

Even here on HN, when it comes to the handful of subjects I'm knowledgable in, it's pretty common to see some masterclass bullshitting holding top spot in a thread.

Re: Google and Facebook Have Failed Us

#106

Not 100% surprising that journalists would view the machines that have wrested control of the news from them with hostility. Facebook definitely could use improvements, and it sounds like Google's search ranking in these rare kinds of situations could too, but the vitriol here — and the suggestion to replace machine ranking with ... surprise, journalists! — makes it seem like the "Us" who've been failed by ranking al…

You are right, but on the other hand, we pay Facebook dearly with our personal data and in return we get to do the work journalists should do, of navigating in a sea of information, most of it fact-free. There must be a more fair distribution of time and income.

Re: Google and Facebook Have Failed Us

#107
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that they are incapable of exercising judgement. It's that when they do exercise judgement, it is consistently towards bad content. False content.

This problem needs to be fixed with education. The article demonstrates an extremely profound misunderstanding of technology.

It's not that easy. To trust a piece of news requires time (for example for cross checking over multiple news outlets) and that's a luxury I (and many others) don't have.

We do pay (indirectly) pay Facebook and Google and we do not get this filtering service at all.

Re: Google and Facebook Have Failed Us

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can be impartial and return results based on relevancy I don't think that's possible. Take a search for "Las Vegas shooting". What is the impartial process for deciding the most relevant result for that? Relevance is inherently editorial.

So first "top news spot" means that if you searched for the name of this person who got falsely accused on 4chan, you found the false accusation on 4chan (as the first result). That's all. Calling this a "top news spot" ... I have no words. Perhaps we should say that this complaint is "fake news" ? I get that newspapers and even journalists have their existence threatened by Facebook and Google, but ... this is a low…

Absolutely right. 4chan is a discussion board not a news site, and does not 'report' the news and is self-contradicting on virtually every issue (because it's a discussion board). Now observe the media try to pull a fast one by drafting off of Facebook and Google's algorithm issues. Their real beef is that heated discussion leads to a more organic narrative rather than the one they've loosely tried to script.

Also it should not be news that a website largely devoted to conspiracy theorizing heats up in page rank after an event like this. Even if the discussion is bogus, let's face it people deep down want to entertain the possibility of conspiracy after every man-made disaster event- so it's relevant, especially in those first few hours before official sources have commented.

Re: Google and Facebook Have Failed Us

#109
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that they are incapable of exercising judgement. It's that when they do exercise judgement, it is consistently towards bad content. False content.

This problem needs to be fixed with education. The article demonstrates an extremely profound misunderstanding of technology.

Any problem which ends with "education is needed to fix it" will fail.

Education is a non-solved problem, and you may as well say "society will fix it", to get a better approximation of what Education entails.

Education on a subject is influenced and affected by

1) Student health, motivation, previous education, available time, availble security, water, electricity, nutrition, parental nutrition, parental education, stability, age, and so on.

2) Education and subject matter is affected by development of the country, politics of the country, cultural importance of the subject, job demands, payment/funds available for education, structure of educational systems and more.

So in other words, its not "fixable".

Do note, that if you developed a way to transpose both information and meaning and expertise, a la matrix, into someones brain directly - you would not only "solve" education, but you would also be able to program legions of soldiers/attackers/drones with the same technology.

Re: Google and Facebook Have Failed Us

#110

Reddit and 4chan had more informative information quicker than all the news outlets. They did not mislead me on anything about the incident. (They did have misleading comments that were easy to ignore) Sorry, but just because there are dumb people in the world why should my results on Goolge be censored. It's also bullshit, 4chan is very well know as a poor source and looks nothing like a newspaper so the concept it…

Well, you could have been on a certain subreddit, and you would be worried about false flag operations after a point.

I will agree, that several networks can get information out faster than older systems.

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