Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

news.sky.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–118 of 118 posts

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#111

Post by gsnedders »

superqwert wrote: post #57
icebraining wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, this can be obtain from CCTV footage; so why don't them? Why log even more stuff?

I believe that some more modern trains allow TfL to measure the weight change of carriages under passenger load, which can be used to estimate numbers, but imagine the cost of trying to roll that out on all trains and platforms... The fares would have to double for a year at least.

I'm sure the Class 345s, soon to appear on Crossrail, do this to show loadings on platform screens (to trying to avoid crush loading in specific coaches while others are empty), but I can't find any source for that. The Class 700s on Thameslink show loadings on platform screens in the "Core" section, but this is based upon CO2 levels within the coaches.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#112

Post by IneffablePigeon »

johansch wrote: post #105
AliAdams wrote: post #51

That is a pretty misleading headline - this isn't asking to see their text messages or something like that; It's just tracking when and where a MAC address is seen in order to work out traffic trends. In fact some of the data looks really interesting: https://imgur.com/Hx6mDSm.jpg (credit to bcraven for the link) Most large public WiFi deploys come with this capability already included (albeit normally with an additi…

Having a state run public transport utility track everyone's mobile devices' unique IDs. Huh. You're seriously asking why this might be sensitive? Wow, I guess you guys in the UK are seriously desensitized to data invasions like that.

Except they’re not storing any device IDs at all, they’re hashing the IDs with a salt that they rotate and dispose of daily. They can only infer movement of a device through the system, they can’t tie that back to any device after the fact, and can’t even tie the same device’s movements together over the course of more than one day.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#113

Post by eterm »

johansch wrote: post #107
eterm wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this stuff is tracked all the time anyway through cell towers, it's way past where the regularization point is for "state intrusion" in the UK. That might seem weird to an outsider but that's just a culture difference. We're just as weirded out that anyone can own even a handgun in the US, let alone walk down the street with one. I'm personally far more weirded out by the idea that a private company can track and…

My two major turnoffs for living in the London area (which otherwise, based on my multiple visits so far, seems lovely) are: a) the pervasive surveillance (i don't think it's by chance that "black mirror" is written by someone - charlie brooker- living there) b) the stupidly high housing costs (in that order, actually)

While London does have a lot more surveillance than the rest of the UK, anywhere in the UK has a lot more surveillance than most other comparable countries.

It was 13 years ago that the UK's then information commissioner warned we were sleep-walking into a surveillance state: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/aug/16/britishidentity.f...

The worries seem positively quaint now in comparison to the data that Facebook, Google and the state now collect.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#114

Post by tinus_hn »

criddell wrote: post #64
AliAdams wrote: post #51

That is a pretty misleading headline - this isn't asking to see their text messages or something like that; It's just tracking when and where a MAC address is seen in order to work out traffic trends. In fact some of the data looks really interesting: https://imgur.com/Hx6mDSm.jpg (credit to bcraven for the link) Most large public WiFi deploys come with this capability already included (albeit normally with an additi…

Don't Android and iOS randomize the MAC addr these days? Are they investing in something that's going to have a very short life?

At least on iOS it is only randomized while scanning, not while connecting to networks you have used before. Which is kind of obvious because otherwise your login won't persist.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#115

Post by s0rce »

corobo wrote: post #69
AliAdams wrote: post #51

That is a pretty misleading headline - this isn't asking to see their text messages or something like that; It's just tracking when and where a MAC address is seen in order to work out traffic trends. In fact some of the data looks really interesting: https://imgur.com/Hx6mDSm.jpg (credit to bcraven for the link) Most large public WiFi deploys come with this capability already included (albeit normally with an additi…

I can't imagine people getting as mad at it as the news article wants them to be. I'm picturing a world where the super aggregate data* is available via an API so I can have an app that says something like "For a faster journey today use line xyz via station abc" * in the image's case, those percentages would do it

Doesn't google maps already do that if you request transit directions? It will route you the fastest predicted way. Worked for me on my trip to London.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#116

Post by QAPereo »

johansch wrote: post #105
AliAdams wrote: post #51

That is a pretty misleading headline - this isn't asking to see their text messages or something like that; It's just tracking when and where a MAC address is seen in order to work out traffic trends. In fact some of the data looks really interesting: https://imgur.com/Hx6mDSm.jpg (credit to bcraven for the link) Most large public WiFi deploys come with this capability already included (albeit normally with an additi…

Having a state run public transport utility track everyone's mobile devices' unique IDs. Huh. You're seriously asking why this might be sensitive? Wow, I guess you guys in the UK are seriously desensitized to data invasions like that.

The people who choose to spend their lives on cctv? Yep...

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#117

Post by corobo »

s0rce wrote: post #115
corobo wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine people getting as mad at it as the news article wants them to be. I'm picturing a world where the super aggregate data* is available via an API so I can have an app that says something like "For a faster journey today use line xyz via station abc" * in the image's case, those percentages would do it

Doesn't google maps already do that if you request transit directions? It will route you the fastest predicted way. Worked for me on my trip to London.

Have no idea, I'll have to give it a go. Honestly being from a small town who commutes to London sometimes I'd never even considered maps for that sort of thing - Here it works as basically just a map

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#118

Post by henrypenface »

corney91 wrote: post #13

Surely this would be an automatic sanction when GDPR comes into effect, leaving your wifi on isn't exactly "explicit consent".

Consent isn't always required for lawful data collection within the GDPR. Article 6 of the GDPR shows other lawful bases for collection

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/data-protection-reform/...

Post reply on HN