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Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

news.sky.com

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Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#51

Post by AliAdams »

That is a pretty misleading headline - this isn't asking to see their text messages or something like that; It's just tracking when and where a MAC address is seen in order to work out traffic trends. In fact some of the data looks really interesting: https://imgur.com/Hx6mDSm.jpg (credit to bcraven for the link)

Most large public WiFi deploys come with this capability already included (albeit normally with an additional license required), whether or not the owners of the system are aware of the capability / are utilising it. Punishing TFL with sensationalist journalism for being open about this application will only make such use in future more hidden and isn't constructive.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#52

Post by icebraining »

superqwert wrote: post #48

Only access point connection time, hashed MAC address and time are logged. The only thing that can be found out about anyone, is where they were, at what time, possibly who they were (all of which can be obtained from CCTV footage), and (additionally) how many web requests were made. No browsing data is stored. This doesn't particularly change the state of existing LU monitoring.

Agree, this can be obtain from CCTV footage; so why don't them? Why log even more stuff?

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#53

Post by superqwert »

icebraining wrote: post #52
superqwert wrote: post #48

Only access point connection time, hashed MAC address and time are logged. The only thing that can be found out about anyone, is where they were, at what time, possibly who they were (all of which can be obtained from CCTV footage), and (additionally) how many web requests were made. No browsing data is stored. This doesn't particularly change the state of existing LU monitoring.

Agree, this can be obtain from CCTV footage; so why don't them? Why log even more stuff?

This has been suggested before, but the media exploded - people don't want to have visual recognition systems looking at them.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#54

Post by superqwert »

zero_shift wrote: post #46
delinka wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the Underground a private institution? Is it government? Does GDPR provide exemptions for government institutions? Do the police assist the Underground in performing searches and data collection? Can the police assume "consent" when they collect your Wi-fi MAC or your Bluetooth ID or any other data your mobile device voluntarily broadcasts?

Yes, no, no, no, N/A as GDPR provides escape hatches for actions to do with 'public safety'.

LU is pseudo-private. It falls under TfL, which falls under the London Mayor.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#55

Post by y0ghur7_xxx »

icebraining wrote: post #52
superqwert wrote: post #48

Only access point connection time, hashed MAC address and time are logged. The only thing that can be found out about anyone, is where they were, at what time, possibly who they were (all of which can be obtained from CCTV footage), and (additionally) how many web requests were made. No browsing data is stored. This doesn't particularly change the state of existing LU monitoring.

Agree, this can be obtain from CCTV footage; so why don't them? Why log even more stuff?

I don't know, but using face detection to better analyse travellers seems even creepier that logging mac addresses from phones.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#56

Post by ghostDancer »

icebraining wrote: post #52
superqwert wrote: post #48

Only access point connection time, hashed MAC address and time are logged. The only thing that can be found out about anyone, is where they were, at what time, possibly who they were (all of which can be obtained from CCTV footage), and (additionally) how many web requests were made. No browsing data is stored. This doesn't particularly change the state of existing LU monitoring.

Agree, this can be obtain from CCTV footage; so why don't them? Why log even more stuff?

I guess it's easier to process MAC/Wifi data/numbers than faces.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#57

Post by superqwert »

icebraining wrote: post #52
superqwert wrote: post #48

Only access point connection time, hashed MAC address and time are logged. The only thing that can be found out about anyone, is where they were, at what time, possibly who they were (all of which can be obtained from CCTV footage), and (additionally) how many web requests were made. No browsing data is stored. This doesn't particularly change the state of existing LU monitoring.

Agree, this can be obtain from CCTV footage; so why don't them? Why log even more stuff?

I believe that some more modern trains allow TfL to measure the weight change of carriages under passenger load, which can be used to estimate numbers, but imagine the cost of trying to roll that out on all trains and platforms... The fares would have to double for a year at least.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#58

Post by zimpenfish »

superqwert wrote: post #50
zimpenfish wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless you would prefer visual recognition software Given they already have multiple cameras covering platforms from multiple angles, this seems like it would have been on the list.

When TfL have previously suggested visual recognition software, the media exploded. So they took a step back.

I suppose calling it "visual recognition software" invokes a kind of "facial recognition and tracking" vibe. I'm thinking more of the "is this platform crowded" visual recognition stuff - "How much of the reference image of an empty platform do we have today?" kind of thing.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#59

Post by matthewmacleod »

joosters wrote: post #16
Matt3o12_ wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, the iPhone only randomizes its MAC address after the device has been locked for two minutes and not connected to any known networks. Two things that are very unlikely to happen in a subway. One of the advantages of riding the subway is that you can use a phone and the other one is that there is rarely any cell connection (at least in my subway), so you need WiFi anyways. WiFi randomization is great…

There’s not great WiFi coverage on the underground right now, but I imagine that it will continue to improve, especially if TfL want to collect more of this data...

Really? The vast majority of tube stations have comprehensive coverage. I can't imagine how it could get much better, beyond being available on trains themselves.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#60

Post by vmateixeira »

victorhooi wrote: post #36
Fifer82 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they profit, take their money, then they are not-for-profit.

You do realise this is a government body that runs public transport, right? Public transport which is notoriously bad at making profits, all around the world. Sorry, but this comes across as a bit of a silly conspiracy theory, by people who can't be bothered doing basic research.

End result != motivation

Bad at making profit doesn't necessarly means you're not-for-profit.

Also from the article:

"What they told people at the time was we're going to use this data to improve services. But now thanks to [Sky News] investigative reporting, we find out that it's partly to improve the services, but also it's to exploit people's data for revenue, doing advertising."

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