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iMac Pro

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Re: iMac Pro

#131

Post by ebiester »

brogrammernot wrote: post #123
bkdbkd wrote: post #103

Amateur extreme. Pro's need a machine that can evolve over time. More memory, larger storage as it becomes available, God forbid - a faster cpu. Remember the PC platform is inherently upgradeable. The LGA2066 chipset can be used with 8+ different CPU's. Pro's invest in proper tools to support their work, not in souped up toys. Without offense meant to my Honda bretheren, this in the same line as the $100,000 Civic mo…

Professional Independent contractors, sure I’ll buy that argument. Never once, in all of the tech companies I’ve worked for, have I seen anyone upgrade a computer. Even recently, my Mac had an issue with parallels that couldn’t get resolved. New Mac given to me. Coworker had a 1.5 year old thinkpad. Just needed to swap the RAM from 8 to 16. Nope, just was given a new Thinkpad with 16 gigs instead of spending $150 on…

I will say that we had some issues at one fortune 500 company where we were passing RAM sticks out to contractors because the computers had pitiful amounts of memory, but they weren't fully capitalized.

Dumb things happen when productivity is abstracted. But again, these are not the people given iMac pros.

Re: iMac Pro

#132

Post by appleiigs »

evilduck wrote: post #117
bkdbkd wrote: post #103

Amateur extreme. Pro's need a machine that can evolve over time. More memory, larger storage as it becomes available, God forbid - a faster cpu. Remember the PC platform is inherently upgradeable. The LGA2066 chipset can be used with 8+ different CPU's. Pro's invest in proper tools to support their work, not in souped up toys. Without offense meant to my Honda bretheren, this in the same line as the $100,000 Civic mo…

I hear this sentiment all the time that "pro users need the ability to upgrade" but not once in a decade of my professional programming career have I _ever_ seen a computer at a workplace upgraded. They get purchased, they get repaired, they get retired or they trickle down to "lesser users", but I've never seen anyone get additional RAM or a drop in CPU replacement on an employer-owned machine. If you needed a bette…

I've seen increased RAM and changed video cards to get multiple screens. The company I work for buys 1 standard setup, then upgrades depending on who's using it.

Re: iMac Pro

#133

Post by bischofs »

demarq wrote: post #54

To all the people banging on about upgrades... exactly what in the name of silica are you working on that this machine can not possibly handle for the next 5 years? What could you possibly want to upgrade? And what are you currently running?

This is the attitude that I find incessantly arrogant. And it is probably the same attitude that Tim Cook and the apple leadership have.

Just because you cannot imagine what people might need to use a computer for does not give you the right to tell them how much performance they need.

Perhaps they are going to the arctic circle and have to rely on parts lying around if anything breaks!

Perhaps they work with cutting edge computer graphics and need a brand new GPU with a certain new feature or hardware chip to test out!

Perhaps they are simulating something gigantic and it is easier to test out parts of the code on a local machine with a PCIe add in card before pushing it to a supercomputer.

This is the definition of a PRO machine, people who have extraordinary requirements and need power and flexibility. Stop telling them they have "enough", you are not in the position to make that call.

Re: iMac Pro

#134

Post by jamesgeck0 »

snuxoll wrote: post #101
Geee wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're working on the cutting edge, let's say in graphics or machine learning you'll probably want to upgrade your GPU every year.

Which is where macOS' new support for eGPU enclosures comes into play.

Current eGPU enclosure technology is for powering up a machine with integrated graphics, not keeping up with top of the line cards.

Thunderbolt 3 just isn't fast enough for that to be feasible. The bottleneck is such that there's already no point in putting a high end card like the GTX 1080 Ti in an eGPU enclosure (Source: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/08/laptop-external-grap... ).

Re: iMac Pro

#136

Post by laichzeit0 »

fhood wrote: post #112
walshemj wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its hard to work with and it hasn't changed in essence from the pre OSX Mac Operating systems

I mean specifically. Is it a UI thing or something more technical?

Unless you've used something better than Finder, you will have no idea how much it actually sucks.

I say this as a Mac user that's used Linux for most of his life: Finder sucks. I don't feel like hashing out all the reasons for why right now. Nothing I say on a little Internet forum will change that.

Re: iMac Pro

#137

Post by mirkules »

brogrammernot wrote: post #123
bkdbkd wrote: post #103

Amateur extreme. Pro's need a machine that can evolve over time. More memory, larger storage as it becomes available, God forbid - a faster cpu. Remember the PC platform is inherently upgradeable. The LGA2066 chipset can be used with 8+ different CPU's. Pro's invest in proper tools to support their work, not in souped up toys. Without offense meant to my Honda bretheren, this in the same line as the $100,000 Civic mo…

Professional Independent contractors, sure I’ll buy that argument. Never once, in all of the tech companies I’ve worked for, have I seen anyone upgrade a computer. Even recently, my Mac had an issue with parallels that couldn’t get resolved. New Mac given to me. Coworker had a 1.5 year old thinkpad. Just needed to swap the RAM from 8 to 16. Nope, just was given a new Thinkpad with 16 gigs instead of spending $150 on…

Your anecdotal experience is opposite of mine: at my place, we still use 4-5 year old computers, and frequently upgrade hard drives, memory, video cards even when needed. We have a few rooms dedicated to spare parts, and when we can't find what we need, new ones are bought. And honestly, my 4yo PC doesn't really need upgrading just so I can open my IDE or browser 20 seconds faster.

Granted, we are an enterprise shop with a few dozen devs - exactly two people have a mac. So we're not exactly Apple's target (enterprise never was)

Re: iMac Pro

#138

Post by matthewmacleod »

bischofs wrote: post #133
demarq wrote: post #54

To all the people banging on about upgrades... exactly what in the name of silica are you working on that this machine can not possibly handle for the next 5 years? What could you possibly want to upgrade? And what are you currently running?

This is the attitude that I find incessantly arrogant. And it is probably the same attitude that Tim Cook and the apple leadership have. Just because you cannot imagine what people might need to use a computer for does not give you the right to tell them how much performance they need. Perhaps they are going to the arctic circle and have to rely on parts lying around if anything breaks! Perhaps they work with cutting…

This is the definition of a PRO machine, people who have extraordinary requirements and need power and flexibility. Stop telling them they have "enough", you are not in the position to make that call.

With respect though, you're talking about different sets of constraints.

The iMac pro is inevitably targeted at the group of people who don't need to upgrade, and maybe they will replace their machine every three to five years. Realistically, there is a limited amount of upgrading that will be done for most users, meaning that engineering effort that goes into building an expandable machine is relatively wasted.

The iMac Pro will not be suitable for every professional user, but it will cover a lot of use cases, and that's okay. If you do need an expandable machine, then there are other options there – but most people don't.

Re: iMac Pro

#139

Post by evilduck »

greggman wrote: post #130
evilduck wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear this sentiment all the time that "pro users need the ability to upgrade" but not once in a decade of my professional programming career have I _ever_ seen a computer at a workplace upgraded. They get purchased, they get repaired, they get retired or they trickle down to "lesser users", but I've never seen anyone get additional RAM or a drop in CPU replacement on an employer-owned machine. If you needed a bette…

well since we're sharing anecdotes I have seen machines get upgraded at work. working on a game. PVS calc took lots of memory and lots of time. Everyone's machines got a 6x upgrade in ram so they could be used at night to compute the PVS. another anecdote. friend in another game found rebuilding assets on SSD was several X faster. Since the entire team was often waiting hours for asset builds to finish all machines g…

I'm sure it happens in many industries, but my point is that I don't think it makes this an "amateur" computer. Plenty of professional employees will want one, get one, and will be completely unaffected by the design. Plenty of people will be on the other side of that too.

Re: iMac Pro

#140

Post by jmull »

bkdbkd wrote: post #103

Amateur extreme. Pro's need a machine that can evolve over time. More memory, larger storage as it becomes available, God forbid - a faster cpu. Remember the PC platform is inherently upgradeable. The LGA2066 chipset can be used with 8+ different CPU's. Pro's invest in proper tools to support their work, not in souped up toys. Without offense meant to my Honda bretheren, this in the same line as the $100,000 Civic mo…

Pros generally want to be paid for their time, and it’s hard to get someone to pay you a nice rate to fiddle with your machine.
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