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Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

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Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#111

Post by computerex »

openfuture wrote: post #38
R_haterade wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything specific practices you recommend? I'm not interested in ayahuasca, but meditation has been on my list for a while now.

Nadishodana. My reasoning: The idea of energy in the body is a very general concept that many different traditions have discovered independently (prana and qi are examples). Most people scoff at the concept but if you progress far in yoga or martial arts the metaphor makes sense and from a western perspective cells need energy to do their thing and that energy requires oxygen, nutrition and blood flow or some means o…

Are you accounting for confirmation bias in your anecdotal experiences?

There is no "western" perspective, there is only reality and falsehoods. Whilst I am a proponent of meditation and mental health, I don't think prana or qi exist as real physical entities in the real world because their presence has not been detected in reproducible, controlled settings.

There are many religions in the world, all of them false when scrutinized through the lens of science and reason. The whole concept of life energy is not grounded in reality based on the available evidence (or lack of evidence).

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#113

Post by thescribe »

odammit wrote: post #32
andai wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm, addictions to sugar, caffeine, alcohol and cannabis evaporated during my trip and did not return for many weeks. I had never felt so peaceful and balanced in my life. Whereas previously I was trying to escape chaos with substances, now consuming substances would only serve unbalance me. I felt like, wow, this is what a human being is supposed to feel like! When you face what is within you, and process it…

This is interesting. I only know one person that’s done it and he said the same thing. Kicked all the habits. I didn’t know him before his trip so I assumed he was kind of full of it. Based on my escalating coffee bill maybe I should give this a swing... So are the hallucinations ever “fun”? I’ve dabbled in other things and it has generally been very video game like kidjoy. All ayahuasca hallucinations I’ve read abou…

Personally I find the idea of setting out to muddle the perception of reality terrifying. I've had sleep deprivation hallucinations and I think everyone should do whatever is in their power not to hallucinate.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#114

Post by tudorw »

nnfy wrote: post #47
tudorw wrote: post #12

It's modulating the expression of some important genes; "It is also a selective inhibitor of the human cytochrome P450 isozyme 2D6 (CYP 2D6)" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16149329 "the inhibitions on human liver CYP3A4 and CYP2D6 enzymes by those β-carboline alkaloids were studied kinetically. Harmine, harmol and harmane exhibited noncompetitive inhibition on the activity of CYP3A4 with K(i) values of 16.76, 5…

Do you have evidence that ayuhuasca is mutagenic? Inhibition of enzymes is temporary and generally harmless if you are careful not to consume certain drugs while inhibited.

Not I, though Dr. Shulgin says; "The second question relates to yet another beta-carboline alkaloid, Harman. This is a structural analogue of Harmine that has been stripped of its methoxyl group. It is widely found in plants and foods, and has been shown in experimental animals to be a vasodilator and a hypotensive agent. It also interacts directly with DNA and is thus a possible mutagenic agent."

Courtesy of the wayback machine you can read the article,

https://web.archive.org/web/20020325022732/http://www.alchem...

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#115

Post by cc81 »

throwanybble wrote: post #104
cc81 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not noticed any permanent changes from LSD (quite a lot of trips and a few heavy ones but nothing truly extreme like a full strip). I can never as I only have my own experience but I think that a lot of "deep insights" and changes comes from people thinking that that is what should happen. Like when young teens get drunk from non-alcoholic beer. I'm not saying it does not happen but I think it is rarer than people th…

It is exceedingly common that a trip will alter a person's perceptions permanently. Such changes likely were the direct result of having taken the substance, and wouldn't have happened otherwise. Without knowing your specific circumstances, another thing to consider is that it's possible that didn't have a scientific approach to measure the precise mass of LSD that you ingested for any or all of your trips. Perhaps y…

I have tripped around 20 times in total; most around 100-200 range with a few around the 300-500 range.

And while I can never know the actual dosages of it when you buy it the way you do my experiences are pretty consistent with how others report their experiences around those dosages.

I am however not a person who is deep into the philosophical aspects of hallucinogens so for me it is about having a pleasant experience and not to try and learning something about myself.

It could be that I'm one of the exceptions or that I don't realize it but to be honest as common as tripping is I don't see many changing their life or outlook after a trip.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#116

Post by nowherecat »

avenoir wrote: post #37
jack_pp wrote: post #5

I don't have any evidence of this but I stronly suspect that doing regular meditation will reduce the chance of bad trips or atleast let you deal with them much better. I'm saying this in case someone decides to experiment with DMT or other halucinogens, you should seriously consider trying meditation as a prerequisite.

Interestingly, I've been reading that traumatic/bad trips are actually the most healing because they often reveal inner, subconscious struggles and repressed feelings that haven't been adequately dealt with.

There is potential for healing, yes. But what comes up needs to be integrated and dealt with appropriately .. if not, it can mess up things quite a bit.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#117

Post by tgb »

anythingnonidin wrote: post #99
astura wrote: post #86

My brother went on an Ayahuasca retreat but ended up deeply disappointed that it didn't change his life and his problems got much worse as a result. Of course, that can happen with any treatments as well. However, professional support could maybe mitigate that a bit. Plus actual data may give a better idea of likely outcomes. He then came home and took LSD that caused an episode of psychosis that lasted a couple week…

Did any of the following apply? > No current or past history of schizophrenia or other psychotic disorders, no Bipolar I or II disorder, and no first or second-degree (“A second-degree relative is defined as a blood relative which includes the individual’s grandparents, grandchildren, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces or half-siblings.”) relatives with these disorders.3 https://tripsafe.org/how-to-take-lsd/#1-avoid-with…

I really dislike this argument. About 1% of US adults have had schizophrenia in the past year. And 2.6% of the adult population has bipolar. Yet at some point in their life they didn't know they were going to have schizophrenia or bipolar! You're arguing that this only affects people with the condition already but if you can't know if you are predisposed for that, then you have to accept that there's risk. I support studying the risk and benefits, but your argument suggests that the risk only applies to other people. It doesn't and it's destructive to suggest otherwise.

Let me put this another way. Their recommendations include first and second degree relatives. Wikipedia says that the risk of having schizophrenia when you have a first degree relative with it is 6.5% [1] This is the single biggest risk factor for it but it's still pretty small. If it's too dangerous to take based off a 6.5% risk then it's also probably too dangerous to take off the 1%-ish risk that the entire general population faces. At the very least, it's important to acknowledge that there exists these risks instead of replying to every anecdote that hurts your cause with this misleading information while allowing the anecdotes that help.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Genetic

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#118

Post by throwanybble »

cc81 wrote: post #115
throwanybble wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is exceedingly common that a trip will alter a person's perceptions permanently. Such changes likely were the direct result of having taken the substance, and wouldn't have happened otherwise. Without knowing your specific circumstances, another thing to consider is that it's possible that didn't have a scientific approach to measure the precise mass of LSD that you ingested for any or all of your trips. Perhaps y…

I have tripped around 20 times in total; most around 100-200 range with a few around the 300-500 range. And while I can never know the actual dosages of it when you buy it the way you do my experiences are pretty consistent with how others report their experiences around those dosages. I am however not a person who is deep into the philosophical aspects of hallucinogens so for me it is about having a pleasant experie…

We may have grown up in different eras. Everyone I know that has dosed is permanently different, and they all self-recognize this change as being permanent.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#119

Post by Fnoord »

computerex wrote: post #107
Fnoord wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ibogaine also reportedly has that effect. [1] Out of the addictions you claim you had, only alcohol is severe. Cannabis is mostly psychological addiction but users often combine it with tobacco which is also physiological addicting. Caffeine addiction is very easy to break with some sheer willpower. The withdrawal symptoms only last 1-2 days, and the side effects are a serious headache. That's nothing compared to her…

I am all for seeking professional help, and I don't put faith in alternative medical practices. With that said, I think currently pharmacology is too constrained by special interest groups. Cannabis is a great example of something that greatly improves the quality of life for many people, but isn't recognized and respected as medicine by the medical community at large.

> Cannabis is a great example of something that greatly improves the quality of life for many people, but isn't recognized and respected as medicine by the medical community at large.

Scientific research can go (too) slow to your liking and/or needs.

With cannabis, that's been changing the past decade AFAICT. My late father had MS, and he had the opportunity to use cannabis to reduce the effects of MS well over 10 years ago (he didn't use that opportunity because of his preconceived notion about cannabis). My late uncle, who AFAIK never used cannabis before (it is decriminalized here), used cannabis to reduce the side effects of chemotherapy. More and more governments are accepting medical marihuana/cannabis. Portugal has decriminalized a lot of drugs, and even in the conservative USA various States are finally adopting medical marihuana.

That being said, there are also cannabis zealots. E.g. some people abuse that scientific research to justify their pot smoking (which is here, unlike in USA, traditionally combined with tobacco, and regardless includes carcinogenics). They simply deny that smoking is bad for their lungs despite decades of evidence suggesting the contrary. I know one friend of my partner who claims cannabis is great for his diabetes but dismisses his change in lifestyle/diet. You cannot simply ignore such factors, and they greatly complicate scientific evidence in research, never mind for those who decide to self medicate based on such research.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#120

Post by hungerstrike »

dnc wrote: post #74

While I was on a retreat this year in a Peruvian village, I was told by several natives (Shipibo people) that, by their tradition (some estimations are that Shipibo tribes have been using Ayahuasca for millenias), Ayahuasca is orally taken in healing ceremonies by their shamans only. Traditionally, in the normal course of a healing ceremony, it is not a patient who takes 'the medicine' or 'the plant teacher' (Ayahuas…

I read a fascinating book called The Cosmic Serpent [0] wherein a team of biologists went to Peru to document the kinds of things that shamans have learned by taking Ayahuasca.

If you want to know more about this, I highly recommend it as basic reading.

[0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/865516.The_Cosmic_Serpen...

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