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Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

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Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#101

Post by nowherecat »

kobeya wrote: post #66
nowherecat wrote: post #31

Having had frequent ceremonies over the course of several months I stopped drinking the tea, because I find it is not helping being pulled from one extreme into another. Our western way of life makes it very difficult to integrate the profound experiences that one can get through this medicine and it requires major commitments to change..and it requires good helpers and facilitators. We, as westerners, are often time…

Or psychoactive drugs don’t teach you anything new but rather modify brain functionality such that you feel different. Gaining new belief or believing you have new beliefs are typically indistinguishable from the inside.

Well, could’t You say the same thing about experiences of any nature? For example: our thoughts always affect our body/mind .. if I take a drug or in the case of ayahuasca an entheogen, it creates a non ordinary state of consciousness, which -if strong enough- can permanently change the way I feel and act. The same you could achieve by meditating on a regular basis or going on a long trip, having a traumatic experience etc .. our brains are being modified constantly by our experiences, not just by drugs. And yeah, a belief is a belief - if it’s a conscious belief you could say ‘I believe in having this belief’ and if it’s unconscious it’s just a belief I am not consciously aware of. But both have the same Effect on my body and mind

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#102

Post by anythingnonidin »

schedule1 wrote: post #20
leggomylibro wrote: post #18

It might be easier to find out, if rigorous research into psychedelics weren't so arbitrarily difficult compared to other medicines.

Nothing will happen until psychedelics are rescheduled. It's a travesty that even the "natural" tryptamines (psilocybin/psilocin and DMT) can't be researched more easily.

Not true - psilocybin is being actively researched by Heffter/Usona. They are much more limited by funding than they are by scheduling (at least, in the US).

The main benefit of rescheduling will likely be through easier access to government funding and funding from large foundations.

If you’re very wealthy, you can fund psychedelic research that interests you today - again, the scheduling is not close to being the main limiting factor.

Source: I’ve talked with multiple researchers who are studying psychedelics.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#103

Post by anythingnonidin »

leggomylibro wrote: post #18

It might be easier to find out, if rigorous research into psychedelics weren't so arbitrarily difficult compared to other medicines.

The main barrier to more psychedelic research is funding / $$ - far more than anything else.

In the US, access to research funding is a far larger issue than scheduling. The main benefit of rescheduling would likely be through its indirect benefits on access to funding.

Source: I’ve talked with multiple researchers who are studying psychedelics.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#104

Post by throwanybble »

cc81 wrote: post #96
throwanybble wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person who has "latent schizophrenia" would have quite possibly been "fine", had they not engaged in ingesting a substance that "catalyzes" their predisposed illness. There isn't a reliable way of measuring what would have happened to a group of "psychedelic casualties", had they not taken such substances. Anecdote or not, and regardless of the causality argument, taking a substance can "catalyze" such conditions t…

Not noticed any permanent changes from LSD (quite a lot of trips and a few heavy ones but nothing truly extreme like a full strip). I can never as I only have my own experience but I think that a lot of "deep insights" and changes comes from people thinking that that is what should happen. Like when young teens get drunk from non-alcoholic beer. I'm not saying it does not happen but I think it is rarer than people th…

It is exceedingly common that a trip will alter a person's perceptions permanently. Such changes likely were the direct result of having taken the substance, and wouldn't have happened otherwise.

Without knowing your specific circumstances, another thing to consider is that it's possible that didn't have a scientific approach to measure the precise mass of LSD that you ingested for any or all of your trips. Perhaps you were "lucky" in the sense that you never (inadvertently) received an extra strong dose. And, your biochemistry might be more tolerant to LSD.

Dosage affects everyone differently, hence the current wisdom to play it safe by scaling up dosage systematically.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#105

Post by Fnoord »

LaikaF wrote: post #95
Fnoord wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume Ayahuasca refers to MAOI + DMT instead of merely DMT, but I could be wrong. Although which plants would be used as source? Maybe we should try to avoid the term Ayahuasca altogether; it is vague.

Ayahuasca referrers to the uses of plants. Normally done by Shamans. pharmahuasca is DMT + MAOI inhibitor The experience is very different. Ayahuasca has a lot of bad side effects such as vomiting, sea legs, and diarrhea

Cheers, had not heard of pharmahuasca before.

> Ayahuasca has a lot of bad side effects such as vomiting, sea legs, and diarrhea

Those are side effects which can occur; not side effects which will occur. Ie. possible side effects.

Its anecdotal and merely one experience as well, but I had no problem with diarrhea or vomiting. Sea legs, yes, which I knew beforehand. Hence I made sure I was able to lie down (which I did).

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#106

Post by [deleted] »

SwellJoe wrote: post #82
virtualwhys wrote: post #13

> Could psychedelic drug ayahuasca have health benefits? Certainly, anecdotally I kicked a very strong 20 year coffee and sugar habit after doing a 3-day retreat in Latin America this past winter. Just happened naturally, oh, I don't need this daily coffee and sugar fix anymore. On the flip side, as the article mentions, the psychedlic tourism industry as a whole doesn't have formal safe guards in place for when the…

"Certainly, anecdotally I kicked a very strong 20 year coffee and sugar habit after doing a 3-day retreat in Latin America this past winter. Just happened naturally, oh, I don't need this daily coffee and sugar fix anymore." Isn't three days about how long it takes to get over caffeine withdrawal symptoms, regardless of whether one has retreated to Latin America and taken psychedelic drugs?

[deleted]

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#107

Post by computerex »

Fnoord wrote: post #46
andai wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm, addictions to sugar, caffeine, alcohol and cannabis evaporated during my trip and did not return for many weeks. I had never felt so peaceful and balanced in my life. Whereas previously I was trying to escape chaos with substances, now consuming substances would only serve unbalance me. I felt like, wow, this is what a human being is supposed to feel like! When you face what is within you, and process it…

Ibogaine also reportedly has that effect. [1] Out of the addictions you claim you had, only alcohol is severe. Cannabis is mostly psychological addiction but users often combine it with tobacco which is also physiological addicting. Caffeine addiction is very easy to break with some sheer willpower. The withdrawal symptoms only last 1-2 days, and the side effects are a serious headache. That's nothing compared to her…

I am all for seeking professional help, and I don't put faith in alternative medical practices. With that said, I think currently pharmacology is too constrained by special interest groups. Cannabis is a great example of something that greatly improves the quality of life for many people, but isn't recognized and respected as medicine by the medical community at large.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#108

Post by remir »

nowherecat wrote: post #31

Having had frequent ceremonies over the course of several months I stopped drinking the tea, because I find it is not helping being pulled from one extreme into another. Our western way of life makes it very difficult to integrate the profound experiences that one can get through this medicine and it requires major commitments to change..and it requires good helpers and facilitators. We, as westerners, are often time…

I agree. Sometimes these substances act like a bulldozer that destroy doors that should have remained closed. For some people, opening these "doors" will lead to more harm than good. I am not writing this to demonize psychedelics, but only to say they can be unpredictable.

As I grow older, I realize we are the product of organized and sometimes very ancient memories and obviously we have not been told (by parents, society) to take a step back and look at things from a detached perspective. As a results, we are like prisoners of memories, symbols and habits, unable to see what's beyond all that.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#109

Post by computerex »

KennyCason wrote: post #88
odammit wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 tabs is a good amount of tabs. I got myself into that mess a few times with the whole “we got ripped off let’s take it all just in case” just to realize I didn’t get ripped off and the first thing I always think when it kicks in is “I got ripped off” Now as a grown up(ish) it’s turned into “I got ripped off, oh never mind I’m high this is fine”

That's pretty much how I ended up taking 5 tabs. I definitely learned my lesson, but am very grateful I did it. My second trip with 1 tab was not even remotely comparable nor as enlightening. I actually haven't done it since (definitely open to), but have noticed that now I can reach a similar state through mediation. I noticed something else odd as well though, now if I do marijuana edibles (sativa), I can actually…

Weed's psychedelic properties are vastly understated. Especially for people who aren't exposed to it, the first few times is definitely a very psychedelic experience.

Re: Could ayahuasca have health benefits?

#110

Post by andai »

Fnoord wrote: post #46
andai wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm, addictions to sugar, caffeine, alcohol and cannabis evaporated during my trip and did not return for many weeks. I had never felt so peaceful and balanced in my life. Whereas previously I was trying to escape chaos with substances, now consuming substances would only serve unbalance me. I felt like, wow, this is what a human being is supposed to feel like! When you face what is within you, and process it…

Ibogaine also reportedly has that effect. [1] Out of the addictions you claim you had, only alcohol is severe. Cannabis is mostly psychological addiction but users often combine it with tobacco which is also physiological addicting. Caffeine addiction is very easy to break with some sheer willpower. The withdrawal symptoms only last 1-2 days, and the side effects are a serious headache. That's nothing compared to her…

> Do you mean your cravings were gone? I don't think one ever fully heals from an addiction. You're still an addict, just not one who's practicing their addiction (giving in to it). That is precisely where professional guidance can aid one.

I did not need to resist cravings, because for a few weeks after the trip I had no cravings to consume sugar, caffeine, alcohol or cannabis (or indeed, overeat, watch porn, masturbate etc).

The temptation was gone, because the cravings arose from a desire to escape emotional suffering, and for a time after my trip there was no emotional suffering: there was peace such as I had never felt before.

Does that make sense? I cannot speak of chemical / physiological addictions, I haven't experienced those.

A few weeks after the trip, because I had not built up the ability to resist cravings, and due to chaos in my life the emotional suffering returned, I eventually gave in to my cravings.

Now, a few years later, I no longer consume sugar, caffeine, alcohol or cannabis: after years of struggling to quit them, gradually reducing my consumption over time, the cravings have reduced too, and it takes less and less "effort" to do the right thing.

I'm also working on emotional healing (I believe the emotional healing experienced on psychedelics can be done manually, it's just more difficult to do it on purpose than spontaneously during a "bad trip") which has had the result of my impulsivity and escapism being significantly reduced: there is less and less to run away from.

For some context: Four years ago during a time of great distress, I would get high literally every 2 hours during the day. If I went too long without, an overwhelming sense of terror would return and I would be unable to do anything productive.

Nowadays I count "time since I last got high" in months, rather than minutes.

Current nemeses: high-carb diet, internet surfing.

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Regarding expectations: I agree. This shit can really fuck you up. I had epileptic seizures for the first time following my trip. Not for the faint of heart, or those with mental illness in the family!

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I can't edit my comment anymore, but I now realize that it does not address the immense dangers.

BTW, my trip was not Ayahuasa but a combination of LSA and cannabis, which turned out to be a very dangerous combination. I included my experience here because from what I've heard from friends who have done Ayahuasca, my experience was extremely similar, both subjectively and in its consequences.

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PSA: Weed is a psychedelic, can awaken latent mental illness

I would like to add that cannabis can be very dangerous, given the right (wrong!) brain chemistry. The paranoia commonly associated with cannabis can develop into full-blown psychosis if you have the DNA for it. Even after years of smoking with apparently no problems!

I know multiple people who have ended up in jail and mental institutions this way. Buyer beware!

Best wishes

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