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It’s time to give Firefox another chance

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Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#671

Post by syshum »

ubernostrum wrote: post #665
syshum wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>This is not hyperbole yes, yes it is The idea the opposing EME and keeping EME out of the HTML5 Standard would have some how "cost lives" is moronic and hyperbolic to such a degree I will not even waste my time responding to it.

The idea the opposing EME and keeping EME out of the HTML5 Standard would have some how "cost lives" is moronic and hyperbolic to such a degree I will not even waste my time responding to it. So imagine a world in which you get your way. Every browser is forced to un-implement EME, the standard is force-amended to not include it anymore, etc. Now what? Well, what happens now is popular media stays popular, and contin…

>>>Now what? Well, what happens now is popular media stays popular, and continues to be delivered via big binary-blob plugins with horrible security properties.

EME is big binary blob plugins called CDM's, EME is just a different API to access the binary plugins that will have (and have already had) all kinds of security issues

>What's the human cost of hacks? What's the human cost of the security issues those plugins open up? How many people end up financially ruined due to personal information being stolen? How many people end up on the street because their credit gets trashed? How many in prison because a plugin vulnerability turned their computer into a node for serving kiddie porn and murder markets over Tor?

Hyperbolic Much, Everyone Info is already out there now and it was not Flash or Java or any browser vunerablity at all that caused it. The idea that the source of people having their Credit Card data and other personal info stolen is the browser shows your ignorance in the field of InfoSec.

Browser are a source for Fraud and Ransomware. Databases of Ruin are targets for ID Theft, that is the database of Large Corporations like Equifax, Target, Yahoo, Anthem, Sony, Adobe, Ebay, etc etc etc

Companies that collect and store PII, they are not hacking individual computers to obtain PII, they are dumping databases

>>It is nowhere near unreasonable to ask how many lives you'd consider an acceptable cost for defeating EME, because there absolutely would be a human cost to it. It's a human cost we're already paying right now, and the major argument in favor of EME is that it helps us reduce or eliminate that human cost.

So you assume in this moronic equation of your that there are zero lives lost in the implementation of EME, The sharing of knowledge via the open web is a huge driver of getting people out of poverty, and improving the lives of billions world wide. In change political regimes that abuse, and torture their population.

How many lives will be lost because all knowledge is locked into wall gardens and accessible only via "approved" platforms, and only for "approved" purposes.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#672

Post by jackmott »

sleavey wrote: post #497

I don't know what everyone's problem was with Firefox. I never noticed significant slow down with the browser, or at least the slow down I saw I blamed on Javascript bloat on websites these days (it started around the time Bootstrap and jQuery really took off). I was even running Adblock+ / later uBlock, had lots of tabs open all the time and browsed heavy websites. I remember reading that comic that Google made to d…

people have wildly different sensitivity to software latency. some people perceive one second as instant. other people are driven mad by it.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#673

Post by syshum »

ubernostrum wrote: post #664
syshum wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>DRM will exist with or without EME Exactly so there was not need to include it in the Standard >and web-based distribution of major popular media will use that DRM in whatever form it takes. Lost of popular media does not use DRM at all >and I've argued at length that killing DRM cannot be done via "principled stands" No it can only be done by principled stands >it has to be done via market forces, as it was with o…

That was killed by a principled stand not by market forces, the record labels wanted DRM, consumer did not give a shit, a few companies made a principled stand to say no... Apple introduced a large legal online music store with DRM. Apple got huge. Huge enough that record labels got scared and needed to break Apple's position. They turned to Amazon to start a competing music store, but had a problem: they needed to h…

>>>>Apple introduced a large legal online music store with DRM. Apple got huge... Huge enough that record labels got scared and needed to break Apple's position. They turned to Amazon to start a competing music store,

ROFL.... That is ... wow... Nothing about that is factually accurate, to state the Record Labels was the driving force behind DRM free Music...

Ummm No...

>>>The fact that you keep claiming EME is DRM tells me that you either don't actually know how EME works or what it does, or that you are willfully lying about it. Which is it, please?

The fact you believe EME has any other purpose except DRM tell me you do not actually know the purpose of EME, or what is does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPfdOOiuOHI

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#675

Post by ubernostrum »

syshum wrote: post #673
ubernostrum wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was killed by a principled stand not by market forces, the record labels wanted DRM, consumer did not give a shit, a few companies made a principled stand to say no... Apple introduced a large legal online music store with DRM. Apple got huge. Huge enough that record labels got scared and needed to break Apple's position. They turned to Amazon to start a competing music store, but had a problem: they needed to h…

>>>>Apple introduced a large legal online music store with DRM. Apple got huge... Huge enough that record labels got scared and needed to break Apple's position. They turned to Amazon to start a competing music store, ROFL.... That is ... wow... Nothing about that is factually accurate, to state the Record Labels was the driving force behind DRM free Music... Ummm No... >>>The fact that you keep claiming EME is DRM t…

I'm not saying the labels wanted to go DRM-free. I'm saying that it was the only option they had at that point. They got legitimately scared of Apple's dominance in the market, and the only way to introduce a viable competitor was to do what they did with Amazon and a DRM-free store.

And just for the record, responses like "ROFL" and calling things "moronic" (as you did in your other comment) don't really make you look like you know what you're talking about or like you're someone who should be taken seriously.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#676

Post by ubernostrum »

syshum wrote: post #671
ubernostrum wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea the opposing EME and keeping EME out of the HTML5 Standard would have some how "cost lives" is moronic and hyperbolic to such a degree I will not even waste my time responding to it. So imagine a world in which you get your way. Every browser is forced to un-implement EME, the standard is force-amended to not include it anymore, etc. Now what? Well, what happens now is popular media stays popular, and contin…

>>>Now what? Well, what happens now is popular media stays popular, and continues to be delivered via big binary-blob plugins with horrible security properties. EME is big binary blob plugins called CDM's, EME is just a different API to access the binary plugins that will have (and have already had) all kinds of security issues >What's the human cost of hacks? What's the human cost of the security issues those plugin…

EME is big binary blob plugins called CDM's

The plugin world had big binary blobs that need the ability to absolutely control at least most or all of the browser and possibly other parts of the computer too.

The EME world has far smaller binary blobs communicating over a narrow defined API which does not give them control of the browser.

So. You don't actually know what you're talking about, and resort to misrepresentations and insults to try to cover up for it. Real great "principled" stand you're taking there.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#677

Post by lightedman »

Manishearth wrote: post #597
lightedman wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Works in Nightly but the video quality is beyond garbage. 1080p webcam should not look like 320p. Chrome properly sees my camera resolution and uses it.

interesting, will file a bug

More interestingly - it will work with a forced-set resolution using ManyCam. Just not with webcam natively.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#678

Post by kumarvvr »

rightos wrote: post #2

I was extremely skeptical of all the changes they were doing - I said it myself 100 times, "they're just building a Chrome clone, they're killing all the features I like in favor of speed". But here I am, running Nightly because holy shit this thing flies. Their work has paid off and they're not even done yet. Webrender is coming, it's not quite stable enough for daily use yet (mostly just graphics glitching and inte…

It's truly awesome. Overtime I associated FF with hung pages and poor performance but stuck to it just to get away from Google software. Am really happy with FF 57 (Quantum). It's really really good.

BTW, also using DDG for search, Outlook for email.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#679

Post by Manishearth »

Aissen wrote: post #627
Manishearth wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Set it as the default browser; it will work normally. Firefox also supports https://developer.chrome.com/multidevice/android/customtabs . It also has a very nifty feature (IIRC off by default) where if you click on a link instead of switching to Firefox it shows a "Tab opened in Firefox" toast which you can tap on to switch to. This means I can for example click on the links in an email whilst still reading it, and t…

Disagreed. I might have 3GB of RAM on this phone, but the browser(s) often get moved out of RAM. It's slower to start than Chrome/Brave. Cold-boot performance matters. I keep Firefox Beta around, and just checked, it's still almost twice as slow as Brave in a adhoc cold start test.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with, I was specifically responding to the "adds another three clicks" thing

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#680

Post by JohnBooty »

ricw wrote: post #259
agumonkey wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of work, the extent for how long they've been doing so, all relative to the funding they got.. it's even painful to think about. Chrome shadowed them overnight, had Google infinite wallet and started from scratch. Mozilla became the old slug.. Since then they got Rust off ground, servo yielding good fruits, firefox cool n quiet. Once again kudos.

That is not representative of either the time frame or the resources available to Mozilla. Mozilla has had Hundreds of millions of annual income through their search associations [1]. It’s surprising how they’ve wasted that amount of money to finally in 2017 build a browser that can compete again. This is 9 years after google chrome was released! They have absolutely no excuse for falling this far behind. They squand…

I don't know exactly how things went down inside Mozilla, but I think their refusal to ditch their old extensions API was the biggest thing holding Firefox back. This wasn't due to poor engineering chops; I believe they simply didn't take the decision to inconvenience millions of users - many of whom were using FF perhaps solely because of the vast extension ecosystem.

I can't hate them for some of the projects they tried. FirefoxOS was actually something the world really fucking needed. We need an open mobile OS.

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