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Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

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Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#31

Post by Smaug123 »

interfixus wrote: post #27
tetrep wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's certainly true that we don't have a complete understanding of nature, I think we can safely assert that dead things don't feel, and I'm completely unaware of any evidence to the contrary (and I would think its existence would be quite noteworthy). I don't think we need to call it a "belief" anymore than we need to say Russel's Teapot not existing is a "belief." We certainly could go down that route, but th…

As I said, I strongly believe the nothingness theory. And I certainly consider all Abrahamic religions (as another poster calls them) to be utter baloney. My downvoters may wish to reconsider. However! As is often bandied about in this forum, we might conceivably be living in a simulation. In which case the Abrahamic stuff wouldn't be all that baloney after all. Or I might be living in one, and being the only charact…

By the way, "Abrahamic" is the standard adjective applied to that collection of religions - it looks like you might not have known that. It's a useful word in some specific circumstances :)

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#32

Post by 123jay7 »

trapperkeeper74 wrote: post #18
Klockan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> exercise, acupuncture, aromatherapy, drugs, meditation, float tanks, social interaction, music, intensely flavored foods, cold therapy, saunas, electroshock therapy, etc. None of those are guaranteed to work though, a significant number of depressed people never gets over it and it wouldn't be that way if we knew effective treatment methods.

The current answer is we don’t yet have full functional pathologies of types of depression, noninvasive, specific mood disorders classified down to exact neurological dysfunctions, accurate and precise knowledge of how existing antidepressants work and evidenced-based application of particular therapies based on such scientifically-identified presentations. Clinical psychiatry has been mostly a scattergun, guesswork…

It's probably not even you, it's probably your life.

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#33

Post by musage »

hashberry wrote: post #16

> Depression has to be about something more than just beliefs; it has to be something fundamental to the nervous system. Is he saying thoughts and beliefs aren't fundamental to the nervous system/CNS/brain? What if people get depressed because their lives suck and they had a shitty childhood? Also, why are women twice as likely to get depressed than men?[0] If "happiness is the derivative of neural confidence"... the…

> Not only became adaption to the given reality the goal of development, but the pathological was seen as a failure to adapt to reality. The validity of that reality was not questioned. The sick carried the blame for being sick. That the pathological could sometimes be the only way to maintain autonomy itself in the face of pseudo-social realities was completely outside the ken of such a mode of thought.

-- Arno Gruen, "The Betrayal of the Self"

That people get depressed or sick in other ways isn't terribly surprising. Look at the world we're making for ourselves and others to live in. It's like toddlers getting sick when crawling on a floor so dirty you can hardly see the floor, and if our first and only reaction is to ask why would the toddler get sick and what kind of protective clothing could they wear, because we're unwilling to face those shitting on the floor, it does not take a scientist to see what's going on. Putting your head over a microscope like an ostrich is what's required to not see it.

Yes, there are actual intricate mechanisms. Just like there are for getting infected in an environment full of pathogens. I'm not even saying they are not interesting or worth studying and quantifying and whatnot. Microscopes are useful, for some things essential. But sometimes the lame, boring answer, like "the world is still too unjust, too many children get abused or neglected in so many ways, often enough because their parents get trampled on, too", is the correct one, that is, it's the correct first part, it requires then acting on that. Until that sentence is no longer true. It's like a spoon to a soup; whoever told you using a fork is more elegant is trapped and trying to trap you.

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#34

Post by themodelplumber »

It's a weird coincidence to read this. I was doing basic research on depression and saw that dopamine played a role in helping people feel good. One WikiHow article [0] later, I had an idea: Start reaching goals. I started very small, like taking progressively longer walks.

Since that time I have earned something like five different certificates in various areas of interest (ARRL coming up next) and as a very recent development, completed my university degree after 15 years of delay due to, among other things, depression.

I find that depression can still affect me, but the episodes don't last as long (around 2h max, lately) and I have a bunch of tools for dealing with them.

[0] http://m.wikihow.com/Increase-Dopamine

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#35

Post by jadbox »

tsomctl wrote: post #13
tcj_phx wrote: post #9

> Depressed people move more slowly, in a characteristic pattern called “psychomotor retardation”. They display perceptual abnormalities. They’re more likely to get sick. There are lots of results like this. > Depression has to be about something more than just beliefs; it has to be something fundamental to the nervous system. Depression is frequently related to metabolic problems: people are exhausted because their…

I find that creatine helps, which weight lifters take to make it easier for your muscles to use ATP.

I wouldn't recommend taking creatine if you don't work out or get cardio. Without that, creatine can cause weight gain due to water retention. If you do exercise, creatine should an essential be part of your stack.

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#36

Post by [deleted] »

bluntfang wrote: post #20
tcj_phx wrote: post #9

> Depressed people move more slowly, in a characteristic pattern called “psychomotor retardation”. They display perceptual abnormalities. They’re more likely to get sick. There are lots of results like this. > Depression has to be about something more than just beliefs; it has to be something fundamental to the nervous system. Depression is frequently related to metabolic problems: people are exhausted because their…

there's a difference between doing a bunch of molly every weekend for fun and self medicating.

[deleted]

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#37

Post by sixo »

bluntfang wrote: post #20
tcj_phx wrote: post #9

> Depressed people move more slowly, in a characteristic pattern called “psychomotor retardation”. They display perceptual abnormalities. They’re more likely to get sick. There are lots of results like this. > Depression has to be about something more than just beliefs; it has to be something fundamental to the nervous system. Depression is frequently related to metabolic problems: people are exhausted because their…

there's a difference between doing a bunch of molly every weekend for fun and self medicating.

There is, it's usually pretty easy to tell the difference. Doubt anyone would mistake them, and I doubt the OP is.

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#38

Post by einmaliger »

Klockan wrote: post #21

When I was depressed I had perfect trust in my ability to predict events, it was just that no matter how much I tried I couldn't predict a future where I weren't constantly in agony. I got over it by letting go of most things that were hurting me like friends, family, dreams etc. So now I live a fairly unassuming life but I am content. It might sound a bit boring but it is much better than living in agony every day f…

> it was just that no matter how much I tried I couldn't predict a future where I weren't constantly in agony

That's a great way to put it. I had a few depressive episodes in my life, I know that these thoughts and feelings are symptoms. The inability to feel, even the hopelessness are symptoms of the disease. Usually, I can even pinpoint the cause of the episode. But another symptom is the inability to imagine a state of mind without depression. And no matter how rational you are, it is very difficult to believe in something that you cannot imagine.

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#39

Post by theptip »

hashberry wrote: post #16

> Depression has to be about something more than just beliefs; it has to be something fundamental to the nervous system. Is he saying thoughts and beliefs aren't fundamental to the nervous system/CNS/brain? What if people get depressed because their lives suck and they had a shitty childhood? Also, why are women twice as likely to get depressed than men?[0] If "happiness is the derivative of neural confidence"... the…

> What if people get depressed because their lives suck and they had a shitty childhood?

But people don't only get depressed because of those things; plenty of people's "lives suck" who aren't depressed, and plenty of people with good lives _are_ depressed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder says:

"The cause is believed to be a combination of genetic, environmental, and psychological factors.... About 40% of the risk appears to be related to genetics."

So yes, thoughts and beliefs are part of depression, but they certainly don't explain all of it.

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