When I was depressed I had perfect trust in my ability to predict events, it was just that no matter how much I tried I couldn't predict a future where I weren't constantly in agony. I got over it by letting go of most things that were hurting me like friends, family, dreams etc. So now I live a fairly unassuming life but I am content. It might sound a bit boring but it is much better than living in agony every day for the rest of your life.
Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression
21–30 of 121 posts
Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Depression to take a few weeks to reverse if you just get enough stimulation? Gee, nice to hear. Maybe I'll just try that.
> Depression to take a few weeks to reverse if you just get enough stimulation? On average it will reverse regardless since the half-life of depression is only a few weeks, unless you take antidepressants in which case it's perhaps less severe but is also less likely to go away.
> the half-life of depression is only a few weeks
Are you referring to a single major depressive episode? And presumably not referring to the various other depressive disorders that last months to years?
FWIW, this one of many things that makes treating "depression" challenging - there are many different forms of depression, and not infrequently the underlying pathology is quite different.
Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression
#23And yet no mention of whether or not anyone is expected to feel fulfilled in life...
Just "Hey buddy, what's up with your neurology, dog? Bro, what's with your nerves all being on a downer and shit? The function output you're charting on this graph is WHACK! We gotta fix that. Totally gotta be your attitude, turn that frown upside down!"
It's pretty tone deaf to read this article and imagine that they're trying to march along to the beat of depression. ...and then to think about someone like this trying to "fix" someone else. ∗∗∗ shudder ∗∗∗
Nevermind legitimate, permanent lasting memories of suffering the reality of one or more tragedies. Nevermind getting lost in the modern labyrinth of industrialized society, where past a certain age, if you've not stayed ahead of the game, you're left as an isolated ghost, and a stranger to everyone you haven't burned or been burned by.
True friends stop appearing after a certain age, and once you drift apart from the peers of your authentic, formative youth, it's extremely rare and difficult to invest honest childhood trust in anyone ever again. This isn't some synaptic chemical thing. Getting old sucks, and lots of people hate the way their lives turn out. I'd hazard a bet that fact is true for the majority of all people, who simply spend the rest of their adulthood coping with the bleakness of existence.
But, hey, maybe I'm "mentally ill."
Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression
#24> also, there’s one way to end all prediction error forever, and it’s something depressed people think about a lot We believe it will end them forever. I strongly believe so. But that's still a belief , and may itself be a prediction error.
While it's certainly true that we don't have a complete understanding of nature, I think we can safely assert that dead things don't feel, and I'm completely unaware of any evidence to the contrary (and I would think its existence would be quite noteworthy). I don't think we need to call it a "belief" anymore than we need to say Russel's Teapot not existing is a "belief." We certainly could go down that route, but th…
AFAICT, your point basically assumes all Abrahamic religions are false (i.e., there's no afterlife). Debating that is out of scope here, but it would suggest we don't all agree that there's no feeling after death.
Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Depression to take a few weeks to reverse if you just get enough stimulation? On average it will reverse regardless since the half-life of depression is only a few weeks, unless you take antidepressants in which case it's perhaps less severe but is also less likely to go away.
> the half-life of depression is only a few weeks Are you referring to a single major depressive episode? And presumably not referring to the various other depressive disorders that last months to years? FWIW, this one of many things that makes treating "depression" challenging - there are many different forms of depression, and not infrequently the underlying pathology is quite different.
> Are you referring to a single major depressive episode?
Yeah if you read Anatomy of an Epidemic, Robert Whitaker has a good research review of all the large scale NIMH/NIH studies.
Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression
#26When I was depressed I had perfect trust in my ability to predict events, it was just that no matter how much I tried I couldn't predict a future where I weren't constantly in agony. I got over it by letting go of most things that were hurting me like friends, family, dreams etc. So now I live a fairly unassuming life but I am content. It might sound a bit boring but it is much better than living in agony every day f…
How did you let go? I've tried things like meditation, but it always feels like things keep coming back.
Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression
#27> also, there’s one way to end all prediction error forever, and it’s something depressed people think about a lot We believe it will end them forever. I strongly believe so. But that's still a belief , and may itself be a prediction error.
While it's certainly true that we don't have a complete understanding of nature, I think we can safely assert that dead things don't feel, and I'm completely unaware of any evidence to the contrary (and I would think its existence would be quite noteworthy). I don't think we need to call it a "belief" anymore than we need to say Russel's Teapot not existing is a "belief." We certainly could go down that route, but th…
As I said, I strongly believe the nothingness theory. And I certainly consider all Abrahamic religions (as another poster calls them) to be utter baloney. My downvoters may wish to reconsider.
However! As is often bandied about in this forum, we might conceivably be living in a simulation. In which case the Abrahamic stuff wouldn't be all that baloney after all. Or I might be living in one, and being the only character in it. Et cetera blah blah blah.
Or, much more to the point, the universe may indeed be far stranger than we know or can ever know. As certain as I am that my year 2100 will be exactly like my year 1900, I could actually have been wrong about the ultimate setup of the world all along.
Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression
#28>One complicating factor – how do we explain depressed people’s frequent certainty that they’ll fail? A proper Bayesian, barred from having confident beliefs about anything, will be maximally uncertain about whether she’ll fail or succeed – but some depressed people have really strong opinions on this issue. I’m not really sure about this, and admit it’s a point against this theory. I can only appeal to the math class example again – if there was a math class where I just had no confidence about anything I thought or said, I would probably be pretty sure I’d fail there too.
I think the model actually fits here better than the author realizes. Predicting failure is much safer than predicting success, it's erring on the side of caution. If you predict that you will fail at something and prepare for the consequences of that failure, but succeed instead, you are better off than if you had predicted success, prepared for success, and failed. To me, it makes sense that, when uncertain, the default would be to predict failure.
And later:
>One problem with this theory is the time course. Sure, if you’re eternally successful, you should raise your confidence. But eternally successful people are rarely eternally happy. If we’re thinking of happiness-as-felt-emotion,itt seems more like they’re happy for a few hours after they win an award or make their first million or whatever, then go back down to baseline. I’m not sure it makes sense to start lots of new projects in the hour after you win an award.
Wouldn't a rise in confidence have a corresponding rise in expectations? New goals mean a return to the state of "haven't succeeded yet".
Personally I'm finding this model seems to fit better than any other model I've heard of. Of course, I'm just some idiot on the internet, not a psychiatrist.
Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression
#29When I was depressed I had perfect trust in my ability to predict events, it was just that no matter how much I tried I couldn't predict a future where I weren't constantly in agony. I got over it by letting go of most things that were hurting me like friends, family, dreams etc. So now I live a fairly unassuming life but I am content. It might sound a bit boring but it is much better than living in agony every day f…
How did you let go? I've tried things like meditation, but it always feels like things keep coming back.
One doesn't "try" meditation. One becomes meditation.
Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Depression to take a few weeks to reverse if you just get enough stimulation? On average it will reverse regardless since the half-life of depression is only a few weeks, unless you take antidepressants in which case it's perhaps less severe but is also less likely to go away.
> but is also less likely to go away. Why are you posting absolute nonsense here?
Charitably, the parent has misphrased the following sentiment: "taking antidepressants correlates with having worse depression (in the same way as taking antibiotics correlates with having worse infections)".