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Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

slatestarcodex.com

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Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#11

Post by Sharlin »

Alex3917 wrote: post #7

This doesn’t make sense to me. Pretty much every purported treatment for depression involves either increasing the amount of sensory stimulation you’re getting or else becoming more attuned to sensory stimulation: exercise, acupuncture, aromatherapy, drugs, meditation, float tanks, social interaction, music, intensely flavored foods, cold therapy, saunas, electroshock therapy, etc. Occam’s razor would suggest its mor…

Depression to take a few weeks to reverse if you just get enough stimulation? Gee, nice to hear. Maybe I'll just try that.

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#12

Post by vanderZwan »

Alex3917 wrote: post #7

This doesn’t make sense to me. Pretty much every purported treatment for depression involves either increasing the amount of sensory stimulation you’re getting or else becoming more attuned to sensory stimulation: exercise, acupuncture, aromatherapy, drugs, meditation, float tanks, social interaction, music, intensely flavored foods, cold therapy, saunas, electroshock therapy, etc. Occam’s razor would suggest its mor…

What you're saying is not in any way in conflict with the predictive processing model, as far as I can see.

You might want to read the article he posted earlier where he reviews Surfing Uncertainty[0]. It discusses this model in more detail.

[0] http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/09/05/book-review-surfing-unc...

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#13

Post by tsomctl »

tcj_phx wrote: post #9

> Depressed people move more slowly, in a characteristic pattern called “psychomotor retardation”. They display perceptual abnormalities. They’re more likely to get sick. There are lots of results like this. > Depression has to be about something more than just beliefs; it has to be something fundamental to the nervous system. Depression is frequently related to metabolic problems: people are exhausted because their…

I find that creatine helps, which weight lifters take to make it easier for your muscles to use ATP.

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#14

Post by trapperkeeper74 »

Umm, not sure this is universal but partial. Depression seems evolutionary psych for multiple, overlapping purposes:

- Reducing aggression (and hence conflict) in larger groups.

- Focusing on existential re/purpose by turning inward (ie find a new job/hobby/outlook/philosophy). Lots of reading, writing and ideation. Hopefully rebuild confidence/positivity with completing something.

- Retreating for terminal resource consumption minimization. Leave more for the young.

Also, anecdotally, I did everything “right” (ie CBT, frequent vigorous exercise, solid career, friends, sleep hygiene, address sleep apnea) and still couldn’t escape depression’s “mind pain” and depressive state. Only medication worked, like parting the clouds, waking up refreshed and organized thinking instead of a jumble.

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#15

Post by VladimirGolovin »

ainar-g wrote: post #4
itschekkers wrote: post #2

Chekroud (2015) here - just wanted to say that I think SSC is awesome, and does a terrific job discussing complex problems in psychiatry & philosophy.

Could you give any recommendations of great articles on that blog? Or should people just go to the About/Top Posts[1] page and go down the rabbit hole from there? [1] http://slatestarcodex.com/about/

Meditations on Moloch: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

For me, it was a mind-blowing read. Highly recommended.

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#16

Post by hashberry »

> Depression has to be about something more than just beliefs; it has to be something fundamental to the nervous system.

Is he saying thoughts and beliefs aren't fundamental to the nervous system/CNS/brain?

What if people get depressed because their lives suck and they had a shitty childhood?

Also, why are women twice as likely to get depressed than men?[0] If "happiness is the derivative of neural confidence"... then do men have more neural confidence?

[0] http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/in-...

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#17

Post by Alex3917 »

Sharlin wrote: post #11
Alex3917 wrote: post #7

This doesn’t make sense to me. Pretty much every purported treatment for depression involves either increasing the amount of sensory stimulation you’re getting or else becoming more attuned to sensory stimulation: exercise, acupuncture, aromatherapy, drugs, meditation, float tanks, social interaction, music, intensely flavored foods, cold therapy, saunas, electroshock therapy, etc. Occam’s razor would suggest its mor…

Depression to take a few weeks to reverse if you just get enough stimulation? Gee, nice to hear. Maybe I'll just try that.

> Depression to take a few weeks to reverse if you just get enough stimulation?

On average it will reverse regardless since the half-life of depression is only a few weeks, unless you take antidepressants in which case it's perhaps less severe but is also less likely to go away.

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#18

Post by trapperkeeper74 »

Klockan wrote: post #10
Alex3917 wrote: post #7

This doesn’t make sense to me. Pretty much every purported treatment for depression involves either increasing the amount of sensory stimulation you’re getting or else becoming more attuned to sensory stimulation: exercise, acupuncture, aromatherapy, drugs, meditation, float tanks, social interaction, music, intensely flavored foods, cold therapy, saunas, electroshock therapy, etc. Occam’s razor would suggest its mor…

> exercise, acupuncture, aromatherapy, drugs, meditation, float tanks, social interaction, music, intensely flavored foods, cold therapy, saunas, electroshock therapy, etc. None of those are guaranteed to work though, a significant number of depressed people never gets over it and it wouldn't be that way if we knew effective treatment methods.

The current answer is we don’t yet have full functional pathologies of types of depression, noninvasive, specific mood disorders classified down to exact neurological dysfunctions, accurate and precise knowledge of how existing antidepressants work and evidenced-based application of particular therapies based on such scientifically-identified presentations. Clinical psychiatry has been mostly a scattergun, guesswork that lacks scientific rigor.

For example, I just tapered-off mirtazepene as it stopped working after 9 years and, so far, bupropion isn’t helping. I’d really like to try S32212 if it proves safe enough in human models because it likely lacks the GI and weight-gain issues.

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#19

Post by TillE »

Alex3917 wrote: post #17
Sharlin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depression to take a few weeks to reverse if you just get enough stimulation? Gee, nice to hear. Maybe I'll just try that.

> Depression to take a few weeks to reverse if you just get enough stimulation? On average it will reverse regardless since the half-life of depression is only a few weeks, unless you take antidepressants in which case it's perhaps less severe but is also less likely to go away.

> but is also less likely to go away.

Why are you posting absolute nonsense here?

Re: Toward a Predictive Theory of Depression

#20

Post by bluntfang »

tcj_phx wrote: post #9

> Depressed people move more slowly, in a characteristic pattern called “psychomotor retardation”. They display perceptual abnormalities. They’re more likely to get sick. There are lots of results like this. > Depression has to be about something more than just beliefs; it has to be something fundamental to the nervous system. Depression is frequently related to metabolic problems: people are exhausted because their…

there's a difference between doing a bunch of molly every weekend for fun and self medicating.
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