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It’s time to give Firefox another chance

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Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#441

Post by waterhouse »

thereare5lights wrote: post #243
krapp wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profits are paid to shareholders. Wages are the cost your employer pays to allow you to generate more profit for shareholders. "Profits are unpaid wages" is a nonsensical statement.

This is only true if your company operates to maximize shareholder value. If your company exists to serve its employees as its first priority, then your statement is false.

Normally the company, from its inception, exists to serve its employees—i.e. the founders. It might then not be in the best interests of those employees to hire more employees under terms that share large amounts of profit with them, if they could get close to the same talent while offering considerably less.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#442

Post by ZenoArrow »

int_19h wrote: post #438
sametmax wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like you can't make mistakes in business, come on ! Who in this bloody comment thread did something as spectacular as mozilla ? As useful ? As hard ? And without grave mistakes ? Seriously get a reality check.

The question you should rather be asking is, who in this bloody comment thread didn't expect Firefox OS to fail, back when it was first announced?

I thought Firefox OS could've found a niche on low-end phones. There's still nothing fundamentally wrong with a phone OS that uses web technologies for its UI, Mozilla wasn't even the first to try it (the Palm Pre got there first). Also, there are tons of phone apps that are just websites in an application wrapper, so it's not like they had to start from scratch to build up their app ecosystem. Lastly, whilst Mozilla has stopped funding it, a fork of it lives on as a smart TV OS for a major TV manufacturer, so it did find a niche, just not the intended one.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#443

Post by sametmax »

int_19h wrote: post #438
sametmax wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like you can't make mistakes in business, come on ! Who in this bloody comment thread did something as spectacular as mozilla ? As useful ? As hard ? And without grave mistakes ? Seriously get a reality check.

The question you should rather be asking is, who in this bloody comment thread didn't expect Firefox OS to fail, back when it was first announced?

Same for phoenix. This is nonsense.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#444

Post by mal808 »

rowyourboat wrote: post #432
ricw wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not representative of either the time frame or the resources available to Mozilla. Mozilla has had Hundreds of millions of annual income through their search associations [1]. It’s surprising how they’ve wasted that amount of money to finally in 2017 build a browser that can compete again. This is 9 years after google chrome was released! They have absolutely no excuse for falling this far behind. They squand…

> They squandered a lot of money, while neglecting their core business (their web browser). They are not a business, they are a non-profit organization. And their aim is not to simply build a better browser, but to preserve the open web, and put control in the hands of the users. Granted, phoneOS was a failure, but given their mission, they had to try.

I really appreciate that they tried phoneOS, It was very disappointed that it didn't work out.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#446

Post by AndrewCHM »

ubernostrum wrote: post #417
syshum wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the Open Web died as soon as they Caved to MS/Google on DRM, and choose to oppose the EFF in their battle to prevent DRM in becoming a standard. Mozilla is now an enemy of the Open Web, the EFF is one of the last organizations left actually standing up for the Open Web. Mozilla is just another Commercial Browser with anti-user features To be clear I am not laying all the blame at the feet of Mozilla, clearl…

So, what would you do to oppose, say, EME? What cost would you be willing to pay? Would you be OK with, for example, some number of people being badly injured or possibly dying if it would guarantee a permanent end to DRM? How many people? This is not hyperbole, by the way: when you adopt the sort of you-agree-with-me-completely-or-you're-my-enemy rhetoric you're using here, well, people's lives are what you're sayin…

And strengthening the stranglehold of copyright holders, doesn't help them ruin lives in a similar way through court systems?

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#447

Post by earlybike »

Did benchmarks on an i7-MBPr (4 cores @2.7Ghz) and an iPhone 7. I'm aware that JetStream and SunSpider aren't about the CSS and rendering but I was curious:

                Chrome    FFNightly Safari    Safari
                OSX       OSX       OSX       iOS                
  ---------------------------------------------------
  MotionMark(↑) 348.82    190.23    474.55    295.12  
  JetStream (↑) 166.84    173.96    239.03    171.27
  Sunspider (↓) 225.2ms   178.4ms   115.2ms   198.5ms
I was surprised about FFNightly's MotionMark result, so I did a second run which again returned a low score of 182.79. Maybe some could double-check and test this too.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#448

Post by Santosh83 »

lightedman wrote: post #409
mconley wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi! Firefox engineer here, and I want to understand why your Firefox is misbehaving. Would you be willing to provide us a performance profile? Instructions are here: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Performance... Feel free to email it to me if you don't want to post the link publicly. I'm mconley at mozilla dot com.

Make FireFox work with FaceBook's Live Video feature - as in both viewing and broadcasting. You'll have me switch back from Chrome in a heartbeat.

Seriously, when we talk so much about the Web's portability, why is a major feature from a major website not even working on identically on the two biggest browsers? Since it's Facebook we can't accuse them of browser favouritism as they're browser neutral. I wonder what APIs are missing from Firefox that makes FB Live Video broken?

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#449

Post by IanCal »

int_19h wrote: post #438
sametmax wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like you can't make mistakes in business, come on ! Who in this bloody comment thread did something as spectacular as mozilla ? As useful ? As hard ? And without grave mistakes ? Seriously get a reality check.

The question you should rather be asking is, who in this bloody comment thread didn't expect Firefox OS to fail, back when it was first announced?

If I could have invested in half the tech things I've seen which I thought were bloody stupid ideas, I'd be a rich man.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#450

Post by ece »

wingerlang wrote: post #440

My laptop is slow in general (Mac 2008) and I've considered Chrome as a culprit. Is there any way I can easily objectively measure the impact from moving to FF? Like taking average memory footprints for a few days with each browser?

I can tell the difference in daily usage, where I would have to restart Chrome every day or two on Linux because of excessive RAM usage (I do keep a lot of tabs open, and simultaneously run IntelliJ IDEA among other JVM programs/docker containers), and I don't have to with FF 54/55+ anymore. Each tab in a new process became the default in 54/55 as long as all of your extensions are updated. I haven't looked back since.

I have tried switching away at points before this, and something would bring me back to Chrome/Chromium, but not this time.

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