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It’s time to give Firefox another chance

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Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#411
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy is a tricky thing and a bit of a spectrum. I will happily give up some information in exchange for a service that I like. I'll happily give Google my search history, including typos in the search bar, in exchange for them tailoring my responses. Why? The difference in results is huge. I don't need to specific that I'm looking for Linux answers, math functions, or scientific results. Google knows this, it has…

> that I'm looking for Linux answers, math functions, or scientific results. Google knows this, it has learned it FYI, I've been using an anonymized front-end (startpage.com) to Google for the last year and I'm not noticing any degradation in the quality of the search results. Startpage doesn't even set a cookie, so I doubt it is tracking me and learning what interests me.

I have tested, numerous times and over a period of years, and I get very different results when I'm logged in and when I'm not logged in. I have the option enabled to track me and personalize my results. I have checked the differences with use of alternative browsers and devices, while using a VPN and not, and even just using alternative profiles.

I also have a media box (well, a series of them over the years) that uses an entirely separate profile. That profile does a lot of YouTube and music. It had learned that I prefer documentaries - though not much more than that. It has also seemed to learn that I prefer isolated guitar tracks and classical guitar. It will now preferentially offer me the isolated guitar track in the top few links, even without including it in my search query. It used to offer different versions, covers, and live versions of the track. I can't get it to offer the isolated track as the primary result, at least not at this time.

I've been monitoring this for quite a while and have watched the improvements. I've even set up the second account, the one mentioned for media, just because I'd observed the effect.

To see the effect, you need to be logged in AND tell them to personalize your results. I'm not sure if that is enabled by default.

I admit this is just anecdotal, but I've made it a point to monitor this since about 2010, which is when I first noticed the option in the settings. I've checked it against being logged out, with different IP addresses, with alternative browsers, and on computers that do not belong to me. The results are remarkably different, though they are pretty generic after the first 20 listed results.

So, in this case, I've given information (privacy) in exchange for results that are more suitable for my personal needs.

I do wish I could select profiles. I'd like to be able to search with my 'generic' profile, my 'tech' profile, my 'music' profile, and my 'entertainment' profile. I think it'd give me more precision and would help me weed out my more generic searches.

Unless you have it blocked, Google also uses a tracking URL on their results. It will say, even if you mouse over it, example.com. But, when you click on it, it actually uses a URL like google.com/tracking/some numbers/example.com. So, they know what links you clicked. I suspect they also log which one you clicked last, so they have an indicator as to which result you found the most helpful.

I should note that links open in a new tab automatically, so they can also track browser session and see when I've completed my searching and can infer more from that information.

I used to also have a developer profile but I haven't really done any development for a few years. That was pretty refined and seemed to learn the languages that I was most interested in.

In each case, the profiles were made by using different email addresses. I have a different email address for the different accounts. I try to avoid cross-pollination between them but I haven't been as good with that as I'd like to have been. I can only speculate that the results would be even more precise if I had done so. As I mentioned above, I did use a third email account but I've not logged into that one in quite a while. It seemed to pick up that I was into PHP, JavaScript, HTML, and was using Wordpress or SMF. I don't know how effective it would be with other languages.

Your mileage might vary, but that sums up my observations and experiences. In my case, I made a clear choice to give up some privacy in exchange for something I value - namely more efficient search results that are more effective and personal.

Again, all an anecdote but I have made it a point to test the results against non-personalized results and the difference is very noticeable and very good. I am much, much happier with the personalized results.

I slam on Google, a lot. I complain about Google - to the point where people may think I hate them and am obsessed with telling people. However, I do try to always make it clear that I'm okay with them asking for my information and that they do have some products and services that I think are done exceptionally well.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#412

I've been a Chrome user since it was first available. I've tried to go back to Firefox multiple times. When the containers plugin hit the front page a week or two ago I decided to try it out. I'm not using the beta or nightly builds because I'm lazy. However, Firefox with containers has sold me and I've switched to it for everything except development. I'm too used to Chrome Dev tools it's been hard to switch :| I ab…

Mozilla provided an add-on API for the Container Tabs, so maybe someone writes an add-on to do this. Or if you want to get your hands dirty yourself, you can try writing one yourself. I imagine hard-coding a few URLs and respective Container Tabs wouldn't be that much work.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it was, but how much additional effort did Apple put into the code base by way of WebKit? Apple didn't need to open source that work, even if the original was open source, and I'm sure the leg up made a big time-to-market difference for Chrome. Edit: Actually, KHTML is licensed LGPL, and that's a viral license if you make a derivative work. So I suppose Apple was forced to open source their changes when it final…

So how come google doesn't have to opensource chrome?

hum, chromium? was it sarcasm?

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#414
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies can't exist to serve their employees as a first priority - because companies exist to make a profit. Even if the owners care more about their employees than about profit, that profit still has to come first. No profit... sooner or later, no company.

This is an insane discussion, but I can't resist: By definition, "profit" is the share of revenue that is not needed for the existence and work of the company. There's even a category of enterprises successfully working in such a framework. They're called–oh happy day–"non-profits".

Non profits don't give extra leftover revenue to employees, so it's still a bullshit statement.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#415
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of work, the extent for how long they've been doing so, all relative to the funding they got.. it's even painful to think about. Chrome shadowed them overnight, had Google infinite wallet and started from scratch. Mozilla became the old slug.. Since then they got Rust off ground, servo yielding good fruits, firefox cool n quiet. Once again kudos.

That is not representative of either the time frame or the resources available to Mozilla. Mozilla has had Hundreds of millions of annual income through their search associations [1]. It’s surprising how they’ve wasted that amount of money to finally in 2017 build a browser that can compete again. This is 9 years after google chrome was released! They have absolutely no excuse for falling this far behind. They squand…

You said that like anything they do is easy. But there is nothing technically, politically or economically easy in the life of mozilla. Add on top of that that they try as best as they can to have a moral stand, and i'm actually amazed they survived at all, yet alone made this come back.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Mozilla has had quite a few projects that didn't really pan out, I'm not sure you're giving them enough credit. They developed (well... became the first and most significant major backer of) an entirely new programming language, purely for the purposes of building a better browser. And then devoted tons of resources for years into developing Servo, a massive and complex project that is only being realized now.…

Did you forget about the Firefox OS for mobile phones?

Like you can't make mistakes in business, come on ! Who in this bloody comment thread did something as spectacular as mozilla ? As useful ? As hard ?

And without grave mistakes ?

Seriously get a reality check.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#417
post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's as a bit unfair conclusion. I just believe that if Firefox dies then for sure "Open Web" will die. But, yeah, of course I am not happy with Pocket. But it still better than using Chrome.

I believe the Open Web died as soon as they Caved to MS/Google on DRM, and choose to oppose the EFF in their battle to prevent DRM in becoming a standard. Mozilla is now an enemy of the Open Web, the EFF is one of the last organizations left actually standing up for the Open Web. Mozilla is just another Commercial Browser with anti-user features To be clear I am not laying all the blame at the feet of Mozilla, clearl…

So, what would you do to oppose, say, EME? What cost would you be willing to pay? Would you be OK with, for example, some number of people being badly injured or possibly dying if it would guarantee a permanent end to DRM? How many people?

This is not hyperbole, by the way: when you adopt the sort of you-agree-with-me-completely-or-you're-my-enemy rhetoric you're using here, well, people's lives are what you're saying you're willing to sacrifice. Mozilla could have taken a suicidal stand on principle, and I guarantee it would have hurt a significant number of people, and possibly led to lives lost (through joblessness, through emboldened powerful interests flush with victory over an all-in opposition, through any number of mechanisms).

So. How many human lives would it be worth to you to get EME out of browsers?

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worse, it's a walled garden. You can't edit or make your own extensions without getting each change approved by Mozilla first. They say to use the alpha(dev) or unbranded versions but the former is unstable and the later has no packaging or language support.

Yes, if you want to run unsigned addons, you need Dev or Nightly. That makes sense. Not letting "normal" users accidentally install malware extensions is really good. "is unstable" isn't a good reason to avoid it. I've been using Nightly as my daily (heh) driver for a long time. It's been awesome. BTW, approval is really fast now: https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2017/09/21/review-wait-times...

> Not letting "normal" users accidentally install

I strongly disagree. Browser functionality for everyone shouldn't be gimped to protect a small subset of users from themselves.

>"is unstable" isn't a good reason to avoid it.

I'm not holding a controversial opinion in thinking that alphas are generally buggy for significant subset of the userbase. I get that it might work fine for you but there's a reason aurora isn't release.

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#419
post #103
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention Firefox for Android that supports extensions (uBlock etc.).

Unfortunately, for me at least, it's not a viable option. Firefox on android still feels significantly more sluggish than chrome. Plus, googles questionable business practice of embedding chrome into many apps, while making opening links very fast, adds another three clicks to someone not using chrome.

> Firefox on android still feels significantly more sluggish than chrome.

Interesting because for me it's the exact opposite: Firefox is fast but when I need to open Chrome (webview or full) it's a slow and painful process (tested on two phones, one 3 year old). Maybe it's because Firefox has everything cached and Chrome needs to load from network... Not to mention full screen, aggressive ads :)

Re: It’s time to give Firefox another chance

#420
post #68
post #41

I was using developer extension and it disabled all of my beloved plugins. I hurried back to the "normal version". How is the update of the plugins to the new browser? Will it go live with uBlock, Tree tabs etc?

This is the version that breaks the legacy plugins and switches over to WebExtensions API. Add-on developer are still catching up, but I think that the majority will be ready for the 57 release in November. I tried switching maybe two weeks ago, and I couldn't, simply because of one extension that wasn't ported. Looking around, and I was able to find out that they've been working on it and two days ago I've installed…

There's a lot of add-ons that are unmaintained and those won't get ported. For those, you'll want to look for alternatives.
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