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A “right to repair” movement tools up

economist.com

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Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#281

Post by ddingus »

tzs wrote: post #209
mrighele wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Poland, and I believe it's an EU regulation, every seller is obligated to take your old appliances when you buy new ones in the same category. For example when you buy a freezer you can drop your old one for recycling free of charge (so the cost is included in the retail price). In Italy is the same. Keep in mind that the retail price includes a tax to cover the costs of recycling, so it is not really free :-).…

What happens if you do not want to return your old appliance when you buy a new one? Do you still pay the recycling tax?

Yes, but you also have the value of the old device.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#282

Post by KozmoNau7 »

david-cako wrote: post #279
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you agree with a simplistic "taxes bad, equality bad, free markets good" philosophy. I find it rather tiresome and not very thoughtful.

I'm neutral on his political stances. I think either a strong shift towards extremely free markets (i.e., healthcare and education highly privatized and non-subsidized), or towards highly regulated markets (i.e., healthcare and education fully publicized and price-regulated) would both be a step in the right direction. Either case seems like it lends towards cheaper services. There's something to be said for age old…

Denmark is very left-wing compared to the US (still, though our "dear" government is trying to undo that), and yet has been rated one of the best countries to do business in.

"Left-wing politics are anti-business" is a huge fallacy.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#283

Post by KozmoNau7 »

pc86 wrote: post #236
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warranty for 6 months, right to complain for 18 months after that. The difference is the burden of proof. For the initial 6 months, the manufacturer/store has to prove the item was not somehow defective from the beginning, due to manufacturing errors or similar mishaps, even if it broke 5 months and 29 days after the sale. In the following 18 months, the burden of proof shifts to the buyer, to prove that the fault di…

Doesn't that make sense, though? If you have a physical product that you use daily, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to ask how a failure after 700+ uses (or many, many more) can be confirmed as a manufacturing issue and not use [over|mis|ab]use.

Yes, I think it does. I find it a reasonable balance between weeding out early failures and not letting customers get away with abusing their devices and still claiming a warranty repair.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#284

Post by thomastjeffery »

logfromblammo wrote: post #274
thomastjeffery wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I burn much less carbon when I take the bus to work. I understand that. It's the obvious reasoning behind a gas tax. My entire point is that there are also other effects. If gas prices raise significantly, then the price of everything - groceries, medication, clothing, cleaning supplies, solar panels, everything - raises, meaning simple things that everyone relies on suddenly become unaffordable to low-wage workers…

I'm running some code through the profiler right now. I'm working on improving that function that is using 17% of CPU, rather than the dozens clocking in at less than 1%. If I can get that 17% function to run in 94% of the time, that is a greater gain from less effort than making any of those The same principle applies to air pollution. Focus on the container ships burning bunker oil and the power plants burning coal…

> that is not necessarily how it will be spent.

Especially in the US, where we are likely to raise the defense budget from $500 billion to $700 billion per year.

Makes me think about how much carbon is released for "defense".

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#285

Post by amichal »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #240
amichal wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most "Recycled" electronics are sent back to china at least in part Edit: summary at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste_in_China

China is trying to shut this game down because it is bad for their own environment.

This is good. It also appears that a larger share of US e-waste is actually handled in the US then I remembered (its been trending up since the 1990s i think). I have no idea of the numbers but environmental regulations be equal (which they are not but we can one day they are) this seems more efficient to my brain.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#286

Post by jpindar »

GhostVII wrote: post #254
gjem97 wrote: post #233

I really get frustrated at how many small appliances I end up throwing out. It just doesn't make sense to repair a food processor that breaks. This stuff that's made with a plastic housing doesn't last more than 5 years in my house. Then I look over at my Kitchenaid mixer. You know the iconic one that would look right at home in the kitchen of the 1960s. It's constructed durably, it's repairable, and people go out of…

> Why can't all appliances be like my Kitchenaid mixer? Because people don't like to spend extra for quality products. For most appliances, there are brands that sell quality versions which will last for years, but lots of people just look for the lowest priced one with the features that they want, and buy it.

Also most stores prefer to stock lower priced items.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#287

Post by icebraining »

Teever wrote: post #280
icebraining wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You never ship them individually, you use containers. And it's probably quite efficient: the shipping boats have to return to China anyway to get more stuff.

I'm referring to the shipping of the broken goods to amazon individually. That's the part I'm critical of. Sure, send them back to China, I don't care, it just seems silly that we would all just mail our broken junk back one piece at a time to AMazon who then puts it in a container and sends it to China. Better to take it to alocal recycling facility for them to send it en masse. Have Amazon give you a voucher to han…

Trucks coming from the Amazon warehouse also have to come back.

Still, Amazon just gifted me an item when I tried to return it since I ordered it by mistake (and I was honest on the form). I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to avoid recycling returns too.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#288

Post by dsfyu404ed »

code_duck wrote: post #277
strictnein wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very common in the US, although there is no regulation governing it. Most places will take your old appliances away when they deliver your new ones. Heck, our power company will pay you $35 if you recycle a working fridge or freezer through them. With them coming out to pick it up for free. The idea being that a lot of people stick their old, inefficient fridge in the basement or garage when they get a new on…

They didn't start doing that of their own accord.

If the truck has to come back after making deliveries it's usually better to load it up with scrap metal than to send it back empty.

It's a pretty damn good example of the market solving a problem by itself.

This only really falls apart when the cost of new stuff is less than the cost of recycling. High wages are not good for recycling/repair businesses.

When you get new tires on your car most places will take the old ones for free. They get recycled into filler for lower quality rubbers (you can't re-vulcanize rubber, it's like un-baking a cake)

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#289

Post by jpindar »

walrus1066 wrote: post #11

It's still doable, and lots of great online guides and videos on how to repair smartphones, laptops etc. I replaced my smartphone earpiece, following an ifixit.com guide. Was initially daunted, given the expense of the handset, but it just took a set of mini screwdrivers and a wedge, 20 minutes, and has been working good as new for the last 3 months. Very satisfying experience.

Yep. I replaced my Nexus 4's USB connector (and the separate little PCB it's mounted on). It was really easy. The hardest part was getting the case open, which took some patience.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#290

Post by Retric »

pc86 wrote: post #236
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warranty for 6 months, right to complain for 18 months after that. The difference is the burden of proof. For the initial 6 months, the manufacturer/store has to prove the item was not somehow defective from the beginning, due to manufacturing errors or similar mishaps, even if it broke 5 months and 29 days after the sale. In the following 18 months, the burden of proof shifts to the buyer, to prove that the fault di…

Doesn't that make sense, though? If you have a physical product that you use daily, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to ask how a failure after 700+ uses (or many, many more) can be confirmed as a manufacturing issue and not use [over|mis|ab]use.

I don't think overuses should be a reasonable cause for defects within 2 years. If 99.9% of users use it less than X, then covering the last 0.1% is not a significant issue.

The top 5% on the other hand are IMO within normal usage patterns.

The exceptions seem to focus on using consumer products like a coffee maker in an industrial setting. But, 2 years is rather short term to be replacing these devices not to mention the overhead of a regular breakdown > replacement process.

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