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A “right to repair” movement tools up

economist.com

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Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#231

Post by requinard »

_qbjt wrote: post #29

Does anyone know what the best, most-serviceable laptop is in 2017? Looking for something with decent hardware and Linux support. It seems like the trend is toward soldered-on parts.

If you're not scared of dropping some more cash on it, you should look into the Dell XPS line. The basics are very serviceable and it has very decent specs and performance.

Mine's been running Arch for almost a year without any hardware issues so far. I also manage to pull roughly 8 hours of development out of a full battery.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#232

Post by strictnein »

pawelk wrote: post #195
stefco_ wrote: post #6

I hope at some point we'll start including recycling/disassembly and replacement externalities into price somehow. I don't know how you would do that in a fair way, but it is frustrating that there aren't a ton of corrective market forces to encourage manufacturers to make highly reusable, repairable, recyclable devices. All of this electronics churn is environmentally terrible, and it's frustrating that, as with car…

In Poland, and I believe it's an EU regulation, every seller is obligated to take your old appliances when you buy new ones in the same category. For example when you buy a freezer you can drop your old one for recycling free of charge (so the cost is included in the retail price). Sometimes it's even used in marketing ("bring your old TV, get new one 10% cheaper"), maybe because they need to meet some quotas so they…

This is very common in the US, although there is no regulation governing it. Most places will take your old appliances away when they deliver your new ones.

Heck, our power company will pay you $35 if you recycle a working fridge or freezer through them. With them coming out to pick it up for free. The idea being that a lot of people stick their old, inefficient fridge in the basement or garage when they get a new one and it sucks down a lot of power.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#233

Post by gjem97 »

I really get frustrated at how many small appliances I end up throwing out. It just doesn't make sense to repair a food processor that breaks. This stuff that's made with a plastic housing doesn't last more than 5 years in my house.

Then I look over at my Kitchenaid mixer. You know the iconic one that would look right at home in the kitchen of the 1960s. It's constructed durably, it's repairable, and people go out of their way to spend more to get it. I can get it repaired if it breaks. Why can't all appliances be like my Kitchenaid mixer?

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#234

Post by JustSomeNobody »

gjem97 wrote: post #233

I really get frustrated at how many small appliances I end up throwing out. It just doesn't make sense to repair a food processor that breaks. This stuff that's made with a plastic housing doesn't last more than 5 years in my house. Then I look over at my Kitchenaid mixer. You know the iconic one that would look right at home in the kitchen of the 1960s. It's constructed durably, it's repairable, and people go out of…

Because people would complain at spending Kitchenaid mixer prices for a toaster.

But, that being said, I completely agree with you.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#235

Post by kartickv »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #214
kartickv wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's wrong. A service model gives me leverage — I stop paying the rent whenever I want and return the washing machine. Maybe you have a different service model in mind, like a contract, in which case we'd naturally disagree, but I'm not talking about such a model. Neither do I care about my flexibility to modify my washing machine. All I care is that it washes my clothes well. BTW, what's "SOL"?

> That's wrong. A service model gives me leverage — I stop paying the rent whenever I want and return the washing machine. It's more inconvenient to you not to be able to use a washing machine when you need it than it is for a service provider to have a random customer unable to pay them on time. > BTW, what's "SOL"? Shit Out of Luck.

It seems that I didn't explain the model I have in mind: the washing machine would be installed in my house, and I pay them a monthly fee, which I can discontinue any time, at which point they'll come take away their washing machine.

In this model, I have the washing machine to use whenever I need it. If it breaks, or if I need a bigger capacity model, or I'm not happy with its performance, I can immediately switch to another supplier. Paying for the entire machine up front closes my options. They already have my money, so they can offer poor service and get away with it.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#236

Post by pc86 »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #219
wiz21c wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe, any thing one buys must be guaranteed by the supplier for 2 years. If one could just push that up to, say, 4 years, it'd nice....

Warranty for 6 months, right to complain for 18 months after that. The difference is the burden of proof. For the initial 6 months, the manufacturer/store has to prove the item was not somehow defective from the beginning, due to manufacturing errors or similar mishaps, even if it broke 5 months and 29 days after the sale. In the following 18 months, the burden of proof shifts to the buyer, to prove that the fault di…

Doesn't that make sense, though? If you have a physical product that you use daily, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to ask how a failure after 700+ uses (or many, many more) can be confirmed as a manufacturing issue and not use [over|mis|ab]use.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#237

Post by bpicolo »

strictnein wrote: post #232
pawelk wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Poland, and I believe it's an EU regulation, every seller is obligated to take your old appliances when you buy new ones in the same category. For example when you buy a freezer you can drop your old one for recycling free of charge (so the cost is included in the retail price). Sometimes it's even used in marketing ("bring your old TV, get new one 10% cheaper"), maybe because they need to meet some quotas so they…

This is very common in the US, although there is no regulation governing it. Most places will take your old appliances away when they deliver your new ones. Heck, our power company will pay you $35 if you recycle a working fridge or freezer through them. With them coming out to pick it up for free. The idea being that a lot of people stick their old, inefficient fridge in the basement or garage when they get a new on…

I'm surprised they don't want you to pay for more electricity. Good on them

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#238

Post by J_Sherz »

winterismute wrote: post #178

Can't read the article, but for the folks in London or around in the UK, you should check out this company, they organize events to promote repair culture and workshop (also as company events) where experts will teach you how to fix common problems: https://therestartproject.org/

This is really cool, the data collection part reminds me of those water fountains at airports that tell you how many plastic water bottles they've kept out of landfill - that kind of feedback is very motivating.

Would love to know if something like this exists in New York.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#239

Post by occultist_throw »

benevol wrote: post #189
booblik wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very bad extrapolation that doesn’t acount for the constant increase in consumption in those countries, whereas the US consumption leveled.

I actually don't even want to compare numbers or countries directly. I just want to remind that consumption in Western countries exceeds available resources by far. We're bankrupting the planet, it's the wrong path and it simply can't last.

Well, yes and no.

We've finally cracked the nut with renewable resources. Its cost a great deal of environmental damage, but I see no good progression to go from hunter-gatherer to high tech. That's just entropy laws.

Now, it could certainly be argued that certain trajectories should be followed and aren't. But progress costs.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#240

Post by seanmcdirmid »

amichal wrote: post #73
Teever wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, does Amazon ship the junk back to China too and then China disassembles it and ships the elements back to their respective holes in the ground? It seems like a better idea would be to just have Amazon give you a voucher for the recycling fees in your local community.

Most "Recycled" electronics are sent back to china at least in part Edit: summary at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste_in_China

China is trying to shut this game down because it is bad for their own environment.
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