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A “right to repair” movement tools up

economist.com

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Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#211

Post by icantdrive55 »

jdavis703 wrote: post #167
dclowd9901 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax on gasoline like that would only affect the poorest of citizens. Charge it on shares of gasoline producing companies and car companies so their share holders scream at them to move to less carbon-y energy creation mechanisms.

The poorest citizens don't own cars.

Oh yes they do. They might have 240,000 miles on them, but poor people, like myself, have/need a vechicle.

And poor people work on their own vechicles.

If you do all the repairs on a vechicle, and don't have high insurance; driving a older vechicle is cost efficient, and a necessity for many poor people.

I cringe when I hear about more gas taxes. Tax people on Income.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#212

Post by lr4444lr »

benevol wrote: post #184
stefco_ wrote: post #6

I hope at some point we'll start including recycling/disassembly and replacement externalities into price somehow. I don't know how you would do that in a fair way, but it is frustrating that there aren't a ton of corrective market forces to encourage manufacturers to make highly reusable, repairable, recyclable devices. All of this electronics churn is environmentally terrible, and it's frustrating that, as with car…

The main issue is this: We need to reduce consumption overall! It is well known that Americans consume far more natural resources and live much less sustainably than people from any other large country of the world. “A child born in the United States will create thirteen times as much ecological damage over the course of his or her lifetime than a child born in Brazil,” reports the Sierra Club’s Dave Tilford, adding…

... controlling for income distribution?

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#213

Post by mrighele »

chrisseaton wrote: post #208
mrighele wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Poland, and I believe it's an EU regulation, every seller is obligated to take your old appliances when you buy new ones in the same category. For example when you buy a freezer you can drop your old one for recycling free of charge (so the cost is included in the retail price). In Italy is the same. Keep in mind that the retail price includes a tax to cover the costs of recycling, so it is not really free :-).…

> Keep in mind that the retail price includes a tax to cover the costs of recycling, so it is not really free :-) They didn’t say they thought it was free. In fact they said > so the cost is included in the retail price And you quoted that!

Ops ! You're right. Too little coffee I guess :-)

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#214

Post by TeMPOraL »

kartickv wrote: post #181
TeMPOraL wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're more dependent on corporations when we buy things, since we have given them all the money upfront. A service model gives us more leverage. No, we aren't and no, it doesn't. Buying things up-front means your interaction with a corporation is brief and to the point. With service model, they get to gouge you for money and restrict the things you can do with the item you now don't own, but rent. > Are you okay no…

That's wrong. A service model gives me leverage — I stop paying the rent whenever I want and return the washing machine. Maybe you have a different service model in mind, like a contract, in which case we'd naturally disagree, but I'm not talking about such a model. Neither do I care about my flexibility to modify my washing machine. All I care is that it washes my clothes well. BTW, what's "SOL"?

> That's wrong. A service model gives me leverage — I stop paying the rent whenever I want and return the washing machine.

It's more inconvenient to you not to be able to use a washing machine when you need it than it is for a service provider to have a random customer unable to pay them on time.

> BTW, what's "SOL"?

Shit Out of Luck.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#215

Post by NicoJuicy »

Well, i love Mercedes as a car. I only don't like the electronics.

Some franchise here in my neighboorhood ( belgium) has bought every garage in 50 km's. Since they are ridiculous expensive ( eg. my uncle got charged 80 € for grabbing a part from the garage, that was excluding the part cost ...). It's me last Benz, my cousins also.

Except if i can find one without electronics.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#216

Post by opencl »

kuschku wrote: post #199
dclowd9901 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax on gasoline like that would only affect the poorest of citizens. Charge it on shares of gasoline producing companies and car companies so their share holders scream at them to move to less carbon-y energy creation mechanisms.

Not really, we have exactly those gasoline prices in Germany and Denmark, and it's actually quite okay. The poor just take transit or bike.

The problem with the US is that outside of a handful of the biggest cities, transit is extremely lacking and the roads aren't bike-friendly at all. It's very difficult to hold down a job without access to a car, especially low wage jobs like retail that change the schedule around on short notice all the time and are often outside the operating hours of transit. You can also get a used car for around $1000, insurance can be had for $30/month, and gas is cheap so owning a car isn't nearly as expensive as some countries. I still drive a car I bought 5 years ago for $1500, it's over 20 years old now but runs fine.

Even some of the big cities (like LA) have woefully lacking transit and everyone just sits in gridlocked traffic for multiple hours every day.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#217

Post by KozmoNau7 »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #215

Well, i love Mercedes as a car. I only don't like the electronics. Some franchise here in my neighboorhood ( belgium) has bought every garage in 50 km's. Since they are ridiculous expensive ( eg. my uncle got charged 80 € for grabbing a part from the garage, that was excluding the part cost ...). It's me last Benz, my cousins also. Except if i can find one without electronics.

Get an old 1977-85 240d or 300d. It will be slow (like, seriously slow), but will run basically forever with maintenance that is mostly very DIY friendly, and it will be surprisingly frugal, partly because of the diesel engine and partly because it will kill any ambition to speed.

The OM616 and OM617 are some of the most reliable car engines ever produced.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#218

Post by Markoff »

tzs wrote: post #209
mrighele wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Poland, and I believe it's an EU regulation, every seller is obligated to take your old appliances when you buy new ones in the same category. For example when you buy a freezer you can drop your old one for recycling free of charge (so the cost is included in the retail price). In Italy is the same. Keep in mind that the retail price includes a tax to cover the costs of recycling, so it is not really free :-).…

What happens if you do not want to return your old appliance when you buy a new one? Do you still pay the recycling tax?

yes :(

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#219

Post by KozmoNau7 »

wiz21c wrote: post #206
benevol wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main issue is this: We need to reduce consumption overall! It is well known that Americans consume far more natural resources and live much less sustainably than people from any other large country of the world. “A child born in the United States will create thirteen times as much ecological damage over the course of his or her lifetime than a child born in Brazil,” reports the Sierra Club’s Dave Tilford, adding…

In Europe, any thing one buys must be guaranteed by the supplier for 2 years. If one could just push that up to, say, 4 years, it'd nice....

Warranty for 6 months, right to complain for 18 months after that.

The difference is the burden of proof. For the initial 6 months, the manufacturer/store has to prove the item was not somehow defective from the beginning, due to manufacturing errors or similar mishaps, even if it broke 5 months and 29 days after the sale.

In the following 18 months, the burden of proof shifts to the buyer, to prove that the fault did not happen to due mistreatment during (ab)use of the item.

That's how it is in Denmark, at least.

Re: A “right to repair” movement tools up

#220

Post by Markoff »

wiz21c wrote: post #207
cnorthwood wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has this law, and I believe it's standardised across the EU.

In Europe I think it's 2 years, which is quite low.

i think I understand it different, they must give you 2 years warranty, but maybe he is saying they must help you with repair/support (with your own money) 4-5 years

kinda similar like car parts, warranty is like 3-5 years (or 100K km) but parts must be available like 10 years or something

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