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Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

newscientist.com

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Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#51

Post by Clubber »

jrimbault wrote: post #4
vixen99 wrote: post #2

OECD 2016 "Young people in England are the most illiterate in the developed world with many students graduating with only a basic grasp of English and maths, an in-depth analysis by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development has found. The OECD report rated English teenagers aged 16 to 19 the worst of 23 developed nations in literacy and 22nd of 23 in numeracy. In contrast, pensioners or those close t…

But most people back then didn't go to university. And the OECD compares across 23 developed nations. Though, in my opinion , education quality has gone down. In France, 2010ish?, in my last year of high school (in one of the best parisian high school) there was a boy who couldn't read aloud a text without stumbling. I don't know if this would have happened in the past. But back then only 20k students reached that st…

>Though, in my opinion, education quality has gone down.

What would you think if I told you I graduated in the 1990s and I felt the same way? Where would that put you?

>there was a boy who couldn't read aloud a text without stumbling.

There could be other reasons for that, like fear of public speaking.

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#52

Post by sprash »

thriftwy wrote: post #48
titanix2 wrote: post #43

I can’t access the original study (sci-hub too slow), which countries are affected by the effect and which aren’t? It would be interesting if China, Japan, Korea aren’t affected while Western countries are.

At least Japan and South Korea are going to be hit by more severe problem: They'll have much fewer people to even take those IQ tests.

Not a problem at all. Historically fluctuations in populations are the norm. Japan and South Korea has more than enough productivity to support everybody including the elderly. It is just a matter of distribution.

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#53

Post by Clubber »

jrimbault wrote: post #11
asfdsfggtfd wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A stutter is a disability not a sign of lack of intelligence/education.

He didn't stutter when speaking. He just couldn't read as fast as he was talking so he had to stop every few syllables. In other words, he was 17 and couldn't read fluently. But he wasn't stupid. He was quite conscientious about his side business and bookkeeping. ps: I stuttered when I was a child.

>He just couldn't read as fast as he was talking so he had to stop every few syllables.

Is that your professional medical opinion?

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#54

Post by nanomoose »

danieltillett wrote: post #15
Ygg2 wrote: post #12

I don't get it. Why is population ageing affecting Flynn effect? Don't they test each new generation at same time? Or is this longitudinal study of a single generation (which is weird, since we can't measure IQ correctly at later ages). Alternative hypothesis. Presence of computers/phones reduces need for working memory, so it doesn't get exercised and leads to decline of it.

Each generation is not a 1:1 descendant of the previous generation. Which individuals of the current generation that have children determines the attributes of the next generation. Now for 100 points guess which people (and what attributes they share) have been biggest contributors to the next generation.

guess which people (and what attributes they share) have been biggest contributors to the next generation

Immigrants? Not suggesting that, but how is that angle entirely ommitted?

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#55

Post by Alex3917 »

Ygg2 wrote: post #12

I don't get it. Why is population ageing affecting Flynn effect? Don't they test each new generation at same time? Or is this longitudinal study of a single generation (which is weird, since we can't measure IQ correctly at later ages). Alternative hypothesis. Presence of computers/phones reduces need for working memory, so it doesn't get exercised and leads to decline of it.

> Don't they test each new generation at same time?

IQ scores are relative to people the same age, so it wouldn’t matter.

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#56

Post by maxerickson »

danieltillett wrote: post #29
Ygg2 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but they are mentioning aging. Do you mean that the older men having children is reducing IQ of future generations?

Older men having children probably does reduce the IQ of future generations given they will pass on more mutations, but no this is not what I meant. Think of all the people you know, think of how smart each person is, and then count up how many children each person has. Unless you you know a very small number of people I think you will see what I mean.

Statistics about how stupid people are outbreeding the smarts would be way more impressive than anecdotes.

Especially given things like the Flynn effect.

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#57

Post by Alex3917 »

subroutine wrote: post #8

It seems like with just a bit more effort the authors could have made a stronger case for their theory that aging is significantly impacting IQ scores by comparing IQ scores among people of the same age (e.g. 20-30 year olds) from decade to decade. They could also look at how IQ changes over a lifespan; there must be some within-subject data available where the same people took an IQ test when they were 60.

> They could also look at how IQ changes over a lifespan

It doesn’t because it’s a bell curve. You literally can’t figure out your score until you already know the distribution.

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#58

Post by rjsw »

raverbashing wrote: post #37
iam-TJ wrote: post #17

Being a long-suffering thoughtful inquisitive type that can turn their hand to anything I have spent many hours pondering why it seems that most people around me show traits of 'stupidity'. I've come to the conclusion 'stupidity' is not the issue; 'unthinking' is, and the specific sub-type is 'unable to apply logical analytical thinking'. I have a relation who, when challenged that the way they're doing some task is…

I find it funny that the 'Great Kingdom' didn't sell electrical appliances with a plug fitted on the 1980s since that was standard in pretty much all the rest of the world. It's not about convenience, it's about selling a functioning and safe product And yes I do agree the knowledge of replacing plugs is important and is getting lost, I didn't learn it by having to fit it to newly acquired equipment (rather by fixing…

I'm fairly sure that the requirement for moulded plugs is an EU directive.

The design of UK plugs means that user replaceable ones are the same size and shape as moulded ones. Doing the same for Schuko plugs is harder so it makes sense that they went all-moulded earlier.

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#59

Post by tonyedgecombe »

iam-TJ wrote: post #17

Being a long-suffering thoughtful inquisitive type that can turn their hand to anything I have spent many hours pondering why it seems that most people around me show traits of 'stupidity'. I've come to the conclusion 'stupidity' is not the issue; 'unthinking' is, and the specific sub-type is 'unable to apply logical analytical thinking'. I have a relation who, when challenged that the way they're doing some task is…

Actually, I think there is some regulation about devices coming with moulded plugs so I'm not sure that is a good example.

The same applies to electrical wiring, I'm not allowed to do many of the tasks I would want with my wiring because I'm not "qualified". Nor was I allowed to fit my hot water tank because it is connected directly to the cold water supply.

I'm loathe to complain about these rules because in many ways we have improved our lives with health and safety legislation. It's comparatively rare for people to die during the course of their work or due to a fire in their home.

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#60

Post by coffeevradar »

amelius wrote: post #27
terminalcommand wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think being wise and being intelligent are different qualities. You might solve a puzzle in shorter time if you're intelligent, or remember more things. But if you're wise you will spend your energy to solve the right puzzle and remember the right things.

How do we measure wisdom? Is there a "WQ test"?

There's already the WC test. Which as one gets older one is less likely to pass.
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