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Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

newscientist.com

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Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#21

Post by terminalcommand »

air7 wrote: post #10

I like to play a little game I call "HN matter anti-matter" where I notice contradicting articles posted on HN and imagine them colliding and erasing each other... In this case: Yes, We Get Wiser with Age (nautil.us) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15346635

I think being wise and being intelligent are different qualities. You might solve a puzzle in shorter time if you're intelligent, or remember more things. But if you're wise you will spend your energy to solve the right puzzle and remember the right things.

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#22

Post by danieltillett »

CPLX wrote: post #18
danieltillett wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each generation is not a 1:1 descendant of the previous generation. Which individuals of the current generation that have children determines the attributes of the next generation. Now for 100 points guess which people (and what attributes they share) have been biggest contributors to the next generation.

I suppose I'll be the one to post the canonical recap of this concept: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YwZ0ZUy7P3E

There is a reason Idiocracy has been described as a documentary :)

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#23

Post by adsfqwop »

iam-TJ wrote: post #17

Being a long-suffering thoughtful inquisitive type that can turn their hand to anything I have spent many hours pondering why it seems that most people around me show traits of 'stupidity'. I've come to the conclusion 'stupidity' is not the issue; 'unthinking' is, and the specific sub-type is 'unable to apply logical analytical thinking'. I have a relation who, when challenged that the way they're doing some task is…

I shudder to think what happens in 20 more years, when the last potato peelers are gone :-/ The movie "Idiocracy" inevitably comes to mind [1] :(

However I do think it's something more than just the burden or unburden of our new technology. Logical thinking should be an universal trait, no matter what the environment is like.

However one thing which is eating into that equation, is logical thinking is almost never promoted in modern education. Even in a declining IQ environment, promoting and teaching logical thinking would reverse a lot of the seeming "stupidity" in our society.

But I still do think there is something more going on. It's not just (lack of) education.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAqIJZeeXEc

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#24

Post by Ygg2 »

danieltillett wrote: post #15
Ygg2 wrote: post #12

I don't get it. Why is population ageing affecting Flynn effect? Don't they test each new generation at same time? Or is this longitudinal study of a single generation (which is weird, since we can't measure IQ correctly at later ages). Alternative hypothesis. Presence of computers/phones reduces need for working memory, so it doesn't get exercised and leads to decline of it.

Each generation is not a 1:1 descendant of the previous generation. Which individuals of the current generation that have children determines the attributes of the next generation. Now for 100 points guess which people (and what attributes they share) have been biggest contributors to the next generation.

Yeah, but they are mentioning aging. Do you mean that the older men having children is reducing IQ of future generations?

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#25

Post by danieltillett »

air7 wrote: post #10

I like to play a little game I call "HN matter anti-matter" where I notice contradicting articles posted on HN and imagine them colliding and erasing each other... In this case: Yes, We Get Wiser with Age (nautil.us) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15346635

In this case the two stories are complementary not contradictory given the young populations are not drawn 1:1 from the old population.

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#26

Post by jrimbault »

danieltillett wrote: post #16
jrimbault wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't stutter when speaking. He just couldn't read as fast as he was talking so he had to stop every few syllables. In other words, he was 17 and couldn't read fluently. But he wasn't stupid. He was quite conscientious about his side business and bookkeeping. ps: I stuttered when I was a child.

The English word you want is not stutter, but stumble. Stutter (or stammer) is a medical condition, stumbling over words is the result of a poor quality education.

Thank you, I edited my original comment.

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#27

Post by amelius »

terminalcommand wrote: post #21
air7 wrote: post #10

I like to play a little game I call "HN matter anti-matter" where I notice contradicting articles posted on HN and imagine them colliding and erasing each other... In this case: Yes, We Get Wiser with Age (nautil.us) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15346635

I think being wise and being intelligent are different qualities. You might solve a puzzle in shorter time if you're intelligent, or remember more things. But if you're wise you will spend your energy to solve the right puzzle and remember the right things.

How do we measure wisdom? Is there a "WQ test"?

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#28

Post by trentmb »

air7 wrote: post #10

I like to play a little game I call "HN matter anti-matter" where I notice contradicting articles posted on HN and imagine them colliding and erasing each other... In this case: Yes, We Get Wiser with Age (nautil.us) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15346635

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_and_crystallized_intelli...

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#29

Post by danieltillett »

Ygg2 wrote: post #24
danieltillett wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each generation is not a 1:1 descendant of the previous generation. Which individuals of the current generation that have children determines the attributes of the next generation. Now for 100 points guess which people (and what attributes they share) have been biggest contributors to the next generation.

Yeah, but they are mentioning aging. Do you mean that the older men having children is reducing IQ of future generations?

Older men having children probably does reduce the IQ of future generations given they will pass on more mutations, but no this is not what I meant. Think of all the people you know, think of how smart each person is, and then count up how many children each person has. Unless you you know a very small number of people I think you will see what I mean.

Re: Average IQ scores seem to have been falling and population ageing may be why

#30

Post by Ygg2 »

matt4077 wrote: post #14
andriesm wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The movie idiocracy comes to mind. Apparently the flynn effect slowed down. Some people hypothesize that the wellfare state has a dysgenic effect by redistributing income from high IQ (high income) people to low IQ (low income or wellfare recipients)... It effectively creates disproportionate economic incentives for having children, and some indications put heritability of IQ above 0.7

And by "some people" you mean social darwinists advocating eugenics?

By some people he means researches mentioned in this Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ#Heritabilit...).
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