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The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

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Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#111
post #109
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The show is dignified and wholesome. really? I always found it to be quite creepy. The constant obsession with being a "really useful" engine. The shaming of engines who don't toe the line. Victimisation of engines who misbehave. The show makes me strangely uncomfortable for some reason.

As an engineer, being "really useful" is a goal that fits within my worldview as good and noble.

Some people's definition of "really useful" explicitly excludes everyone who can read or write, wears glasses, etc. Documentaries about those people consistently contain shots of roomfuls of human skulls.

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#112
post #69
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diligence and selflessness, I agree, but obedience is something to be earned by the person giving orders, not a trait to be expected in the receiver.

Do you expect parents to earn the obedience of their young children? They are the receiver in this instance.

Yes!

Children, developmentally challenged ones excluded, inherently trust parents who have given them adequate nurturing. Emotional outbursts, challenges to authority, and disrespectful behavior will happen as they become able to move around. The parent should be patient with, but not reward, uncontrollable emotional outbursts.

Challenges to authority or dangerous activities (e.g., running into traffic) should be met with firm, kind correction (move the child away from danger, say "no" to hitting and hold the hands, etc.). To influence children to perform an action, leverage and bargaining is effective.

It is through this slow, persistent grinding of wills that teach children how to behave. Meanwhile, allowing as much autonomy from the child as is possible / practical allows the child to blossom, while reading and sharing in activities inspires the child and builds trust and affection.

I firmly believe that obedience is earned in some way or another: through fear of retribution, or through the trust and desire to please / aversion to disappoint.

It is apparent later in life which children were raised in the latter manner: they, in general, have good relationships with their parents; authoritarian parents have a harder time developing relationships and getting much-needed support from their adult children.

I didn't mention neglectful parenting, which will often produce worse outcomes than authoritarian parenting: crime, emotional instability, etc.

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#113
Once upon a time, there was an engine called Henry. Henry was asked to help but refused. So Henry was put in time out. Henry didn't enjoy time out and wanted to be let out. So was let out, and learned to be responsible and helpful.

The reason you teach a toddler this should be blindingly obvious.

Once upon a time, there was a journalist called Jia Tolentino. Jia was a special kind of stupid. Allegory, you see, was entirely lost on Jia. So, being neither helpful nor responsible, she called Henry's boss a fascist.

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#114
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And in fact his stories are about one of the main symbols of modern corporate industrial society: The train. He liked trains. He made up stories about them as a child, imagining them as characters talking to each other, then wrote those stories down for his own son years later. He didn't consider trains to be a symbol of corporate oppression or dystopia.

You keep putting meaning to my words where there was none. I did not say that he considered trains to be a symbol of corporate oppression or dystopia. In fact the entire point of my original comment is that you can be completely unaware of any idea of a corporate dystopia and still write a story that includes symbols of corporate dystopia because you are just using the things you see around you day to day in your sto…

Ok. I must be misinterpreting your comments, then, because I read "Almost all the content we've got is representative of 'corporate-totalitarian dystopia', because we live in a corporate-totalitarian dystopia" as implying that all media (including Thomas the Tank Engine) is an allegory by the authors of the 'corporate-totalitarian dystopia' in which they live.

If your point is that content is interpreted by people who believe they live in a dystopia as being representative of it, then I suppose I would agree. I've seen people read dystopian symbolism into the Teletubbies, too, although that, like many such subversions, seems to be an attempt at contrarian humor. If that interpretation can be so broadly applied, then it's most likely lacking in depth. In this case, since the author had no intention for his stories to represent "corporate-totalitarian dystopia" then what does it signify to say that they do? It seems like a tautological statement.

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just to be clear I'm mostly talking about the US and western countries. Let's break it down: Corporate: the corporation has been the main organizational unit for most of society at least since the 40s. In fact the vast majority of Americans that have a vocation work under a corporation. Totalitarian: The definition of totalitarianism is "a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires compl…

> In fact the vast majority of Americans that have a vocation work under a corporation. I'm curious about that. The total # of government employees is about 22 million. Add to that over a million in the military. The total # of employees is about 127 million. The number of people employed by the Fortune 500 is about 27 million, or 17% of the workforce. http://fortune.com/2015/06/13/fortune-500-most-employees/ Corpora…

I remember a hilarious George Carlin rant about how evil corporations controlled all the media. He was on a stage owned by media corporations, was being paid by media corporations, and the show was broadcast by media corporations.

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#116
post #111
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an engineer, being "really useful" is a goal that fits within my worldview as good and noble.

Some people's definition of "really useful" explicitly excludes everyone who can read or write, wears glasses, etc. Documentaries about those people consistently contain shots of roomfuls of human skulls.

Some people's definition of "good person" involves the color of their skin. Do you think we should stop aiming to be good people?

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just to be clear I'm mostly talking about the US and western countries. Let's break it down: Corporate: the corporation has been the main organizational unit for most of society at least since the 40s. In fact the vast majority of Americans that have a vocation work under a corporation. Totalitarian: The definition of totalitarianism is "a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires compl…

> In fact the vast majority of Americans that have a vocation work under a corporation. I'm curious about that. The total # of government employees is about 22 million. Add to that over a million in the military. The total # of employees is about 127 million. The number of people employed by the Fortune 500 is about 27 million, or 17% of the workforce. http://fortune.com/2015/06/13/fortune-500-most-employees/ Corpora…

Do you seriously think that there is no corporate agenda in the US? It's not even conspiracy theory. A good chunk of the daily news stories are related to the topic.

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#119

Thomas & Friends is gold. The show is dignified and wholesome. It is always about respect, diligence, and humility. It isn't there for stupid antics and wacky laughs. It doesn't blast color explosions and ADHD-fueled off-the-charts mind-numbing exuburance to capture kids attention. And it's been doing that for decades (pretty much eternity, as far as kids TV goes). Not since Mr. Rogers has there been a better kids TV…

>it was still evident that he wasn't left in their forever, as he showed up again next time. "We shall take away your rails," he said. "And leave you here for always and always and always." They definitely wanted the viewer to believe it was permanent for purposes of that episode. And if you watch the scene (linked to elsewhere in the thread), the dominant emotional themes are stubbornness, arguing, physical confront…

> permanent for purposes of that episode

What does that mean though? Generally kids who are old enough to follow the story know that the universe is reset in each episode.

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#120
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep putting meaning to my words where there was none. I did not say that he considered trains to be a symbol of corporate oppression or dystopia. In fact the entire point of my original comment is that you can be completely unaware of any idea of a corporate dystopia and still write a story that includes symbols of corporate dystopia because you are just using the things you see around you day to day in your sto…

Ok. I must be misinterpreting your comments, then, because I read "Almost all the content we've got is representative of 'corporate-totalitarian dystopia', because we live in a corporate-totalitarian dystopia" as implying that all media (including Thomas the Tank Engine) is an allegory by the authors of the 'corporate-totalitarian dystopia' in which they live. If your point is that content is interpreted by people wh…

Heh that's my original point. There is nothing particularly wrong with Thomas. Glad we can come to an agreement.
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