Have you been Really Useful today?
The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”
61–70 of 279 posts
Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The show is dignified and wholesome. really? I always found it to be quite creepy. The constant obsession with being a "really useful" engine. The shaming of engines who don't toe the line. Victimisation of engines who misbehave. The show makes me strangely uncomfortable for some reason.
It doesn't make as much sense for our imminent future state, when robots do all our jobs and we sit around all day, but I like the distinctive "really useful engine" complement. Obedience, diligence, and selflessness are admirable qualities. All kids and adults should strive to be really useful, in the best sense of the phrase. There's far too much narcissism in the world.
Diligence and selflessness, I agree, but obedience is something to be earned by the person giving orders, not a trait to be expected in the receiver.
Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”
#63This is only news to someone who has never watched Thomas. It took me until the second or third Thomas book and I was pretty surprised how authoritarian it all was - and that was circa 2000. But the books are from the 40's and like a lot of things people keep buying them not knowing exactly what they're getting. Also kids love talking trains.
It's not just authoritarian. It's classiest. Sir Topham Hatt inherited the job. In episode 610, Hatt is unavailable and one of the engines, Hiro, tries to run the railroad in his absence. This is considered grossly improper.
Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”
#64The New Yorker turned into Pat Robertson and the 700 Club so quickly I didn't even notice. Robertson divined the nefarious gay-agenda purpose of Teletubbies and now Ms. Tolentino discovers the totalitarianism that is Thomas & Friends. One can only imagine the undisguised communism of Barney & Friends (caring means sharing!) awaiting discovery or the Satanic influences of Lyrick/HIT (owners and distributors of Barney & Friends, Thomas & Friends, Bob the Builder, and a metric shitload of other child-oriented programming) given that the Veggie Tales owners bailed on a distribution agreement with them due to a lack of trust in Lyrick/HIT continuing to support the "Christian values" of that franchise.
Joseph McCarthy could not be reached for comment at this time, although George Orwell was heard to mumble "1984 was supposed to be a warning, not a guide."
Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Not since Mr. Rogers has there been a better kids TV show. I'm too young to have watched this show. Just googled it and it really does look like a lovely, wholesome show. Personally my gold standard is the original Looney Toons (Mel Blanc era). I could watch that irreverent, slapstick all day. I'd rather my kid take a leaf from Bugs Bunny's F-you style than Thomas' meek, obey, do what you're told and stay on the ra…
> Personally my gold standard is the original Looney Toons… I find Looney Toons extremely racist and stereotypical. Though I grew up on it, I wouldn’t expose kids to it.
hehe I guess it is (speedy gonzalez, el gringo pussy cat-o, that short dad from the 3 bears that slaps his wife and kid around), but it's so damn charming at the same time. I guess now we have Rick & Morty so we've got a new wave of irreverent cartoon to enjoy
Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”
#66Thomas & Friends is gold. The show is dignified and wholesome. It is always about respect, diligence, and humility. It isn't there for stupid antics and wacky laughs. It doesn't blast color explosions and ADHD-fueled off-the-charts mind-numbing exuburance to capture kids attention. And it's been doing that for decades (pretty much eternity, as far as kids TV goes). Not since Mr. Rogers has there been a better kids TV…
> Not since Mr. Rogers has there been a better kids TV show. I'm too young to have watched this show. Just googled it and it really does look like a lovely, wholesome show. Personally my gold standard is the original Looney Toons (Mel Blanc era). I could watch that irreverent, slapstick all day. I'd rather my kid take a leaf from Bugs Bunny's F-you style than Thomas' meek, obey, do what you're told and stay on the ra…
Are kids not watching Mr. Rodgers these days ? That's really tragic. I think that was one of the best things on TV growing up, in retrospect. I'm biased however, having grown up with it, in Pittsburgh where its filmed.
Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, we did live in a corporate-totalitarian dystopia in the 40s to 70s. And you are being lazy for assuming things that I did not say. I'm not implying that it's propaganda. I'm saying that media reflects the world we live in, as that is the context that we are familiar with, and we tell stories set in our own world.
> Yes, we did live in a corporate-totalitarian dystopia in the 40s to 70s. I understand people like to interpret things through that lens now but like seeing Tolkien's work as an allegory for industrialization or the atomic bombs, it seems to me to be mostly post-hoc revisionism to do so. Reading the Wikipedia page of the author, I don't see any evidence of a "corporate-totalitarian dystopia" which would inform his s…
So just to be clear I'm mostly talking about the US and western countries. Let's break it down:
Corporate: the corporation has been the main organizational unit for most of society at least since the 40s. In fact the vast majority of Americans that have a vocation work under a corporation.
Totalitarian: The definition of totalitarianism is "a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state." Despite noises to the contrary, the US is certainly not a democracy, and I wouldn't even call it a representative republic. A data-driven study [1] confirms the intuitions of many that the US is really an oligarchy of the wealthy corporate class. US politics is driven by corporate interests and there is little evidence that public sentiment has a large effect on material outcomes, despite external appearances. Furthermore it can be argued that the US is a police state, as described by Pulitzer prize winning journalist Chris Hedges [2]. The US government has had countless programs to control discourse and put down opposition since its inception, and anything that threatens the status quo is stomped out with prejudice.
Dystopia: In many important factors, American citizens are unhappy with their lives, and this unhappiness can be traced back to the corporate-totalitarian nature of the US. Extremely expensive health care, long work hours without much vacation, economic disparity between classes, lack of affordable housing, complete corruption of the financial sector, regulatory capture, endless warfare, corporate control of the media, etc are all direct results of the structure of our society.
[1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...
[2] https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-origins-of-our-police-...
Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”
#68Thomas & Friends is gold. The show is dignified and wholesome. It is always about respect, diligence, and humility. It isn't there for stupid antics and wacky laughs. It doesn't blast color explosions and ADHD-fueled off-the-charts mind-numbing exuburance to capture kids attention. And it's been doing that for decades (pretty much eternity, as far as kids TV goes). Not since Mr. Rogers has there been a better kids TV…
>it was still evident that he wasn't left in their forever, as he showed up again next time.
"We shall take away your rails," he said. "And leave you here for always and always and always."
They definitely wanted the viewer to believe it was permanent for purposes of that episode.
And if you watch the scene (linked to elsewhere in the thread), the dominant emotional themes are stubbornness, arguing, physical confrontation, the giving & revoking of permissions and punishment. That's haunting, not wholesome.
Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't make as much sense for our imminent future state, when robots do all our jobs and we sit around all day, but I like the distinctive "really useful engine" complement. Obedience, diligence, and selflessness are admirable qualities. All kids and adults should strive to be really useful, in the best sense of the phrase. There's far too much narcissism in the world.
Diligence and selflessness, I agree, but obedience is something to be earned by the person giving orders, not a trait to be expected in the receiver.
Do you expect parents to earn the obedience of their young children? They are the receiver in this instance.
Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”
#70Thomas & Friends is gold. The show is dignified and wholesome. It is always about respect, diligence, and humility. It isn't there for stupid antics and wacky laughs. It doesn't blast color explosions and ADHD-fueled off-the-charts mind-numbing exuburance to capture kids attention. And it's been doing that for decades (pretty much eternity, as far as kids TV goes). Not since Mr. Rogers has there been a better kids TV…
I'd rather let my daughter watch SpongeBob or Octonauts or Ghibli movies rather than shows that tell her that every aspect of her self worth should be defined by how useful she is to the rich people in town.
And that's the underlying justification for a lot of the episodes: Thomas has an obligation to be grateful for his work and to do as he's told. Even when he doesn't like the job. Even if there are better things for him to do. Even if his friends are sad or in danger.
It's a pretty vile lesson.