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The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

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Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#71

Post by ballenf »

glenstein wrote: post #68
paulddraper wrote: post #13

Thomas & Friends is gold. The show is dignified and wholesome. It is always about respect, diligence, and humility. It isn't there for stupid antics and wacky laughs. It doesn't blast color explosions and ADHD-fueled off-the-charts mind-numbing exuburance to capture kids attention. And it's been doing that for decades (pretty much eternity, as far as kids TV goes). Not since Mr. Rogers has there been a better kids TV…

>it was still evident that he wasn't left in their forever, as he showed up again next time. "We shall take away your rails," he said. "And leave you here for always and always and always." They definitely wanted the viewer to believe it was permanent for purposes of that episode. And if you watch the scene (linked to elsewhere in the thread), the dominant emotional themes are stubbornness, arguing, physical confront…

The fantasy / fallacy that all things are forgivable in life and nothing has permanent consequences is also damaging.

Just had a good friend’s nephew drown in a pool. He had snuck in a backyard pool, skirting past or under the fence. As a parent the whole thing was a nightmare for me to imagine, but I did think about how or if to communicate to my kids that there are things they can do that will have permanent consequences or effects. I do my absolute best to shield and protect them, but I also hope and pray they make the right choice if (when) I fail in that.

I’m not saying that the punishment in that episode was appropriate, but simply that the concept of permanent consequences is a life lesson we all must learn at some point. And it’s incredibly difficult to teach kids.

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#72

Post by musage »

yock wrote: post #69
mikeash wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diligence and selflessness, I agree, but obedience is something to be earned by the person giving orders, not a trait to be expected in the receiver.

Do you expect parents to earn the obedience of their young children? They are the receiver in this instance.

Parents don't really have to do anything special to earn the trust of their children most of the time. And the point of raising a child should be to raise a person, not a child. Yes, when a kid runs into the street you just grab it by the arm and then explain why it shouldn't run into the street, but all that is more like the the set of exceptions that confirm the rule.

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#73

Post by ballenf »

krapp wrote: post #46
pselbert wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The complement of being " really useful" never bothered me. My kids are a bit too old for Thomas now, but we still say people are "causing confusion and delay" when they derail the rest of the family.

Machines are defined by their utility, and their value comes from their ability to do work, but children shouldn't be taught that the same applies to them.

I’m not sure that my kids see themselves as the trains. The trains don’t have parents, eat food, etc.

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#74

Post by krapp »

colordrops wrote: post #67
krapp wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, we did live in a corporate-totalitarian dystopia in the 40s to 70s. I understand people like to interpret things through that lens now but like seeing Tolkien's work as an allegory for industrialization or the atomic bombs, it seems to me to be mostly post-hoc revisionism to do so. Reading the Wikipedia page of the author, I don't see any evidence of a "corporate-totalitarian dystopia" which would inform his s…

So just to be clear I'm mostly talking about the US and western countries. Let's break it down: Corporate: the corporation has been the main organizational unit for most of society at least since the 40s. In fact the vast majority of Americans that have a vocation work under a corporation. Totalitarian: The definition of totalitarianism is "a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires compl…

Yes. I'm well aware of the definitions of a corporation, and totalitarianism, and dystopia. But a priest who appears to have spent the early 20th century pottering around the English countryside writing stories about trains was not informed by having lived in a corporate-totalitarian dystopia. So your earlier assertion that this is what Thomas the Tank Engine represents seems specious.

It's a modern reinterpretation of a tv show whose cultural dissonance makes it seem dystopian and authoritarian, but I'm sure someone could find a way to make the Neighborhood of Make-Believe from Mister Rogers seem like a dystopia if they tried. Doesn't mean that's what Fred Rogers was going for.

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#75

Post by krapp »

ballenf wrote: post #73
krapp wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Machines are defined by their utility, and their value comes from their ability to do work, but children shouldn't be taught that the same applies to them.

I’m not sure that my kids see themselves as the trains. The trains don’t have parents, eat food, etc.

What would they be meant to identify with, then?

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#76

Post by mikeash »

yock wrote: post #69
mikeash wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diligence and selflessness, I agree, but obedience is something to be earned by the person giving orders, not a trait to be expected in the receiver.

Do you expect parents to earn the obedience of their young children? They are the receiver in this instance.

A lot of parental obedience is earned just by virtue of being the parent. Beyond that, expecting your child to obey just because they're supposed to be obedient is not a particularly productive attitude.

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#77

Post by ballenf »

krapp wrote: post #75
ballenf wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure that my kids see themselves as the trains. The trains don’t have parents, eat food, etc.

What would they be meant to identify with, then?

I don't know, but I'm pretty sure they don't feel like they have to identify with a particular character.

When they watch a train crash episode, for example, they don't run into walls afterward, they pick up their trains and crash them together.

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#78

Post by mcphage »

hirsin wrote: post #66
ux-app wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not since Mr. Rogers has there been a better kids TV show. I'm too young to have watched this show. Just googled it and it really does look like a lovely, wholesome show. Personally my gold standard is the original Looney Toons (Mel Blanc era). I could watch that irreverent, slapstick all day. I'd rather my kid take a leaf from Bugs Bunny's F-you style than Thomas' meek, obey, do what you're told and stay on the ra…

Are kids not watching Mr. Rodgers these days ? That's really tragic. I think that was one of the best things on TV growing up, in retrospect. I'm biased however, having grown up with it, in Pittsburgh where its filmed.

> Are kids not watching Mr. Rodgers these days ?

It's not really on the air anymore. The modern animated spinoff "Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood" is still on, and is quite good. But I'm not sure when you'd find the original still on.

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#79

Post by aaron695 »

modeless wrote: post #4

I am certain that this story was inspired by the reporter reading this recent reddit thread that pointed out the absurdity of this show: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/6zgpig/what_is_t...

It's is an old meme that gets pull out regularly on reddit.

http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/953476-thomas-the-tank-engine

Not to say it wasn't this particular thread that caught the persons attention.

Re: The Repressive, Authoritarian Soul of “Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends”

#80

Post by krapp »

ballenf wrote: post #77
krapp wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would they be meant to identify with, then?

I don't know, but I'm pretty sure they don't feel like they have to identify with a particular character. When they watch a train crash episode, for example, they don't run into walls afterward, they pick up their trains and crash them together.

Children's shows generally teach lessons, which is why I assumed that children are meant to identify with the trains.
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