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How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

harpersbazaar.com

281–290 of 449 posts

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're arbitrarily privileging "giving a fuck" over "not giving a fuck". Try this: Alice wants Task X to be done. Bob does not care whether Task X is done. Let us stipulate that, if Task X is not done, nobody will be materially, objectively harmed. Alice says: because I want Task X, you will do Task X. Alice does not ask Bob's opinion on Task X, but rather assumes that Task X is inherently necessary, and ther…

This was really well said. I think all aspects of communication can be made clear by a a logical set of algorithms. Idea for a startup.. anyone?

Ethereum Smart Pre-nups?

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#282
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We were looking for a new washer and dryer. Our friends moved and offered us their old units. I was amazed at how much stress this removed--not because of the monetary savings, but because it removed our need to make a decision about what to buy. I think that was the point of the article. The decision-making process is emotionally expensive and that is what she wanted as a gift.

Maybe I'm weird, but I don't find figuring out which product to buy a painful or emotionally draining experience. I rather enjoy researching different models and features, comparing and contrasting. How hard is that?

Imagine you don't enjoy researching a household item. (Why? Maybe you'd rather do something else. Doesn't really matter.) Now it's harder. Either way, it's definitely effort, and you can only squeeze so much effort into a day.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#283
post #49
post #31

I think this current trend where we assign responsibility for our emotions to everyone else is highly toxic and ultimately self-defeating. You can learn to control your own emotions or you can walk around waiting for everyone else to make sure you're happy and comfortable. Only one of these strategies is going to have any chance of success.

I'd offer a third option which is taking responsibility for your pain / emotions, but not trying to "control" them. Instead, welcoming and allowing all of them and creating space to engage and explore them. This can lead to much deeper connection with your self and others, and increased health. When you do this, you will also be more available to help others feel their emotions and to help them take responsibility fo…

You're right, control is the wrong word. It's more "don't let them control you". With practice I find I can feel an emotion, recognize it as an emotional response, then either find some productive action to address what's causing it or if none are available, let it go.

Not that I'm always perfect at doing this, but I find it's more helpful than just being annoyed/sad/angry and waiting for some external change in circumstances to make me feel better.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#284

Describing cleaning as emotional labour is weird to me. I'm fully on board with the "many women do lots of emotional labour that goes unnoticed" logic but to me cleaning is labour and that's that. It's a job, and it should be talked about as hard labour, not some mysterious emotional nebula that men avoid because of gendered conditioning. I think the danger here is that by conflating emotional labour and cleaning, we…

I think you might be missing the point. The gift that she wanted was the house cleaning service. She had already been planning/considering hiring someone anyway. The gift was that she would not have to do the work to find, vet, make the calls, research, arrange payment, schedule, etc. for this task. The gift was supposed to be him taking over that work. > The gift, for me, was not so much in the cleaning itself but t…

I think you missed the point. Yes, she wanted a house cleaning service. But that’s not the gift she wanted. The gift she wanted was for her husband to magically divine that she wanted him to use her emotionally-laden approach (seeking recommendations via social) to solving the problem of hiring the service instead of his pragmatic approach of identifying the cost of the service, which he then used his prior training as a magical diviner of her expectations to arrive at the conclusion she wouldn’t budget for it. Perhaps incorrectly. But that’s the problem with expecting your spouse to be a mind reader, they will try to do it, often to an undesirable result.

While I get the idea that my wife allows certain things to drag her down emotionally, and the solution is to step up and surprise her by taking care of things (and recognizing her contribution to the drudgery), what I see in this article is much different. I see a narcissist who expects others to read her mind, and a codependent husband whom she declares as inept and sees no problem at all pillorying him in Vanity Fair. And a bit of dishonesty too. She claims she doesn’t want to micromanage her husband yet is obviously displeased because he chose a pragmatic approach to her gift as opposed to doing it her way.

PS my wife’s solution to this problem. She asked. Not to do the dishes or clean the toilets. She asked me to take care of some things that concern her, without her having to ask me. Things I would normally “step around” because they’re not priority for me.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#285
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I flipped your and your roommates genders in my head, and was immediately incensed about the continued repression of women in our society - looks the program is working as intended. Um hmm.

Why were you incensed? I'm totally fine with our arrangement; it's just a consequence of basic supply and demand and the fact that no one owes me amything.

I think the comment was meant to draw attention to today's societal programming. It seems very likely that if a woman were to say the same thing one might be inclined to view it as an example her internalized misogyny and symptom of the systematic oppression of women in general, rather than a human being who derived satisfaction from keeping their living space tidy.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#286
post #280
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My ex was not messy. He did things like meticulously organize his book collection and kept his own possessions in pristine condition. He was just a sexist pig. He did not think he was a sexist pig. He was very idealistic and talked about the importance of women's rights. It wasn't apparent I was marrying a troglodyte until well after we married and our first child was on the way. On some level, he wanted a modern two…

I'm really uncomfortable reading these insults, even if they're deserved. More so because they're in response to a comment of mine (even though I'm not the destination). I'd be so pleased if you removed them. That said, I do understand where you're coming from (both through empathy and some cases I personally know). But you should see that we agree: he probably was a bad choice for you. People always hide their bad p…

You have that backwards. You replied to a comment of mine in a manner that implies a great many negative things about me and my marriage. Those implications are entirely inaccurate, but given that this is an overwhelmingly male forum, it is a no win situation for me. Not rebutting them implies that you are correct. Rebutting them has resulted in my comment getting downvoted and now you acting like your feelings of offense vastly outweigh the importance of my feelings of offense.

And we do not agree: He was not a bad choice for me.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#287
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no need to plan this out. Look at it like a garden. If someone decides they want a nice looking garden or lawn, then they work on it. But another person can be perfectly fine with some grass that gets cut on a Saturday when it looks too long. If my partner wants a garden and works on it, they aren't removing any work from me since I don't want a garden. In the same way, all these decisions don't have to be p…

Well if you're single this is all moot anyway, the point I'm making is about a relationship. I'm also not talking about hobbies, there's no problem there. I'm also not talking about when I go for lunch while at work, because it's just me. I'm talking about the sorts of things that are necessary to run the household my wife and I share. The thing is, yes, maybe one doesn't need to plan all this out and this emotional…

>The thing is, yes, maybe one doesn't need to plan all this out and this emotional labor isn't necessary. But you know what? I'm married to her and I love her and she's my best friend so it is my problem, because I don't plan on leaving her.

And perhaps I want to surprise my partner who wants a garden by planting them one when they have to spend a week traveling with their job. But looking at it as something that you do out of love for a partner is vastly different than how this article looks at it and vastly different from it being some gendered issue that I've seen emotional labor presented as in the past.

Imagine it a different way. Say I was a big dog person, by my partner was not. But we compromised and got a dog (and assume that compromises happen on many issues, which I think is a sign of a healthy relationship).

Now imagine if I wrote up an article like this. "Dog loving is the unpaid job women still don't understand." That would be absurd.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#288
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That resonates with me. But I struggle a lot. I feel like my wife's irrationality on some subjects forces us to both spend some of our very limited time here feeling anxious and negative. It's frustrating and feels very one sided. Why can't she meet me half way and stop being so anxious on half the events? Well.. because irrationality doesn't work that way; I get that. I think that true zen for me is finding a way to…

Please don't directly connect irrationality with anxiety. Sure, there's a connection between the rational and emotional parts in humans, but this doesn't mean that being anxious automatically means being irrational. Quite a few fears have their origin in the childhood, when the rational parts of the brain haven't been that developed, and perhaps that's the reason why these fears can have such a deep impact. When thes…

Thank you for sharing. Yes I can see what you mean. I use the word irrational to describe behaviour and decision-making that has no logical founding. I'm not trying to suggest irrational equals wrong or invalid. How my wife or I feel about something is valid regardless of its rationality.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#289
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no need to plan this out. Look at it like a garden. If someone decides they want a nice looking garden or lawn, then they work on it. But another person can be perfectly fine with some grass that gets cut on a Saturday when it looks too long. If my partner wants a garden and works on it, they aren't removing any work from me since I don't want a garden. In the same way, all these decisions don't have to be p…

Well if you're single this is all moot anyway, the point I'm making is about a relationship. I'm also not talking about hobbies, there's no problem there. I'm also not talking about when I go for lunch while at work, because it's just me. I'm talking about the sorts of things that are necessary to run the household my wife and I share. The thing is, yes, maybe one doesn't need to plan all this out and this emotional…

I don't want to argue with you, because I admire those that consider the needs of others and put that consideration into practice, but I can see BearGoesChirp's point too.

Let's take food as an example. Having a well stocked kitchen is something that requires planning, but how much planning is required for each meal? Sometimes when you have something particular in mind that takes extra preparation time, but it's often possible to improvise an evening meal and still come out with something that's just as satisfying/healthy. Is it irresponsible to not plan every part of how a household runs?

Another example is holidays. People's ideas of what constitutes a good holiday vary wildly. I'm guessing you've found what works for you and your partner, but let's imagine a scenario with a different couple. One person wants to plan everything they'll do before the holiday starts. Their partner wants to just turn up and see how things unfold. Both are valid (I have my own preference, but I'm not going to muddy the waters with that). How are these two people meant to resolve these different preferences for how they like to organise their holidays?

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#290
post #208
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my point is: yes, the fear is irrational, but you're not irrational because you have the fear. Or saying it the other way, you can't be just rational and the fear will disappear. So it's quite unempathic to think about someone being irrational because he's anxiously, and you don't have anxiety because you're rational.

Thanks for that! I suffer from some severe anxiety (diagnosable so, even) and one of the most difficult things for me to accept is that it is irrational. Removing the source of anxiety just makes my mind find something else to be anxious about, for example. I find it extremely uncomfortable to admit to myself that my own mind, my 'self', can actually be the source of self-sabotage. My rational side, irrationally, oft…

I'm a grown man and I have in the past few years developed an understanding I didn't know about, but is definitely deeply rooted in my childhood: very busy places like farmer's markets, theme parks, etc. really stress me out and make me anxious. I know it's irrational. But being irrational doesn't invalidate my feelings. My feelings are valid by definition.

And my solution isn't, "be more rational." But acknowledging that they're not rational is important in investigating the issue.

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