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Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#181

Post by reuven »

dceddia wrote: post #101
reuven wrote: post #91

How about freelancing? I've been doing that since 1995 -- and my income and happiness have never been higher. Pros: - Work on what you like, with the people you like - Potentially very high salary, definitely more than you would get as an employee - Want to work on side projects (e.g., software, books, and courses)? Go for it, and benefit from multiple income streams. Cons: - You're running a business. That requires…

This seems like a better option to me than the "founder" role in the article. How did you find your first clients? You mention you're traveling the world teaching Python (which sounds awesome!) -- do you consider that "freelancing" or are you taking client work in addition to the teaching?

I was lucky, but my story isn't unusual: When I started freelancing, my former employer hired me to do some projects. This gave me a financial cushion to start finding clients. Most of them came through word of mouth, although speaking at conferences and user groups helped.

For most of my career, I did development work, with some occasional training. But over time, I found that training (a) was more fun, (b) paid better, (c) allowed me to schedule in advance, and (d) didn't mean getting angry calls about bugs in the middle of the night. Plus, it was a great way to specialize and thus become better known for one thing.

When I started to call myself a trainer, rather than a consultant, I started to get calls from companies I hadn't heard of. Not only does being a specialist with a clear focus make you stand out in companies' minds, but my former students remember me, too -- so they recommend me when they switch jobs, which is pretty common in the high-tech world.

I definitely consider training to be freelancing. I have someone who works for me, doing day-to-day development on projects, and I'll occasionally do that myself. But right now, I mainly do training, a bit of consulting, and am working on products (including http://WeeklyPythonExercise.com/) that I want to supplement my consulting/training income.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#182

Post by mbesto »

edw519 wrote: post #156

Employee (individual contributor / middle manager) Pro: More work and fewer meetings LOL, IF ONLY! Another example that people in silicon valley (and yc in particular) have no idea what goes on in the real world. (HN reply in one window, with skype and webex open in 2 other windows, my 5th and 6th meetings today. I've been on HN for 10 years with over 5,000 contributions, almost all while in meetings, ignoring talkin…

Which is why "tech industry" here needs a proper definition. Everything here seems to be geared towards the author's own experience (which is limited, like all of our careers are), and is very "startup bay area centric". Likely most of the companies he's referring to have anywhere between 5 and 100 employees and have been created in the last 5 years. In the larger "tech industry"(as I would define it), these companies are actually in the minority.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#183

Post by 0xdada »

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #167
slewis wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my counter-anecdote. I hesitate to do this but I think it's nice for aspiring software engineers to have details. I moved to San Francisco in 2006 straight out of college to work at Google as a SWE. I was $27k in debt (student loan + credit card). My rent was $1450 at the time (2 bedroom with a roommate in a nice part of town), and I took out a $26k loan to buy a car. I'm not particularly frugal. I did well at…

$1,450/2BR in SF is the giveaway that this is a dated, and no longer even remotely likely, anecdote.

Saving that much money (even adjusted) in 4 years is totally realistic though, so I'd say it passes as anecdote.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#184

Post by metalliqaz »

bluebird01 wrote: post #78
metalliqaz wrote: post #5

Missing from the strategies for the first two (really all three): come from wealthy background.

seems like an overly simplistic conclusion. yes, wealth begets wealth, but to assume wealth is the only factor in outsized success in tech is a class based argument that doesn't add up.

I didn't say it was the only factor. It is strongly correlated, though. It's easier to focus on starting a company when you can stay on your parents' health insurance, for example.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#185

Post by humanrebar »

cachemiss wrote: post #158
humanrebar wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There aren't lots of them outside of the tech hotspots. Maybe. But how many people live in those places because that's where the well-paid jobs are?

Most of them I'd wager. Issue is, and it was for me, is that moving out of an area where I can walk down the street and get another great job to an area where the only great job is the one that this hypothetical company is offering just wasn't worth the risk. I have a wife and kids, and so do most specialized senior engineers.

> I have a wife and kids...

Sure, so minimal commute times and affordability of family homes in areas with good schools should be very appealing to many of the specialized senior engineers.

Moving the family is a pain, sure, but that just means the pitch needs to include why it's worth it for the family. And it means that senior engineers move cities less often. It doesn't mean they move less altogether.

Idle thought: this kind of risk (moving around too much) could be mitigated a bit by some sort of contractually guaranteed employment. A move to Princeton from SF would sound better if a four-year employment guarantee or a comparable cash buy-out was part of the employment agreement.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#186

Post by foundart »

humanrebar wrote: post #81
cachemiss wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are bootstrapping, and you are starting a company in an area that does not need the top tier of engineers (which is most of them, regardless of how they talk about hiring the best), I'd consider starting someplace low cost. I think college towns in the midwest / rust belt are untapped resources, or areas that used to have strong technically focused companies that moved away. I've personally seen founders boots…

I share you bullishness about "untapped" cities, but: > ...starting a company in an area that does not need the top tier of engineers... As far as quality of talent, the "top tier of engineers" aren't all in SF, Seattle, or NYC. There are plenty of "top tier" engineers in all kinds of places. If you mean the "top tier" in pay rates are in those cities, that probably true. But those cities also have a ridiculous cost…

It's easier to take a risk on a startup in a tech hub because you can likely find a job elsewhere if things don't work out. In a non-hub area, it's riskier to take the leap because fallback options are much more limited.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#187

Post by barrkel »

BeetleB wrote: post #128
mahyarm wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

80k* %50 = 40k vs. 160k * %35 = 56k Bay area in a nutshell. You can have higher savings rates too, I do around %40 and I could save even more. Working at a startup does make it harder, usually it's better to work at FANG. You also learn a lot and realize the difference between 'facebook does this dev practice because it's huge so it has to vs. it's the better practice'

>Bay area in a nutshell. You can have higher savings rates too Your example is a higher savings amount , not rate. In your example, I may still prefer the 80K one. Why? Assume taxes are a third of your salary in both places. In the 80K job, you save 40K, and your living expenses are 13.3K In the 160K job, you save 56K and your living expenses are 50.7K In Nowhereville, you are saving 3 times your annual cost of livin…

You'll still need to retire in a cheap city in Nowhereville. Why not live in SV when you're young and retire to Nowhereville, vs living in Nowhereville all your life?

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#188

Post by slewis »

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #167
slewis wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my counter-anecdote. I hesitate to do this but I think it's nice for aspiring software engineers to have details. I moved to San Francisco in 2006 straight out of college to work at Google as a SWE. I was $27k in debt (student loan + credit card). My rent was $1450 at the time (2 bedroom with a roommate in a nice part of town), and I took out a $26k loan to buy a car. I'm not particularly frugal. I did well at…

$1,450/2BR in SF is the giveaway that this is a dated, and no longer even remotely likely, anecdote.

That was my share, the total was $2750. Also, I didn't mention, but I paid $2k for my own one-bedroom for half that time. That same one-bedroom would be $3k today.

Salaries at Google have scaled with cost of living, so it seems relevant to me.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#189

Post by rpeden »

cachemiss wrote: post #163
rpeden wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an irrelevant side note - what do envision when you think of 'Uber for cats'? - A cat sharing service? - A 'cat on demand' service that allows you to reap the benefits of cat ownership without having to worry about acquisition and maintenance costs? - A taxi service for cats? I could envision paying for all of those, under the right circumstances. So such a company would likely have at least a few dollars of rea…

I am deeply concerned now that my random comment might end up as a VC funded startup.

It looks like Uber already gave it a try :)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/uber-kittens-1.3292441

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#190

Post by rpeden »

koolba wrote: post #143
Qworg wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the GP, but... Obviously cat sharing, but you'll have to find a way to take a margin from what was nominally a goodwill activity. Maybe you pay cat owners in cathours (pronounced cath-ours), and have a marketplace where people can buy and sell cathours. Even better, make Catcoin (CC), set up an ICO, and get to work.

> Obviously cat sharing, but you'll have to find a way to take a margin from what was nominally a goodwill activity. This exists though not quite Uber / on-demand style. You need to go to the cats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_caf%C3%A9 Very big in Japan.

I've been meaning to visit the Toronto cat cafe:

http://www.totthecatcafe.com/

And of course, my old neighbourhood in Ottawa got a cat cafe not too long after I moved away:

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ottawas-furst-daily...

So it looks like the idea is spreading!

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