Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee • Hacker News Board

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#141

Post by driverdan » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 5:54 PM UTC

twright0 wrote: post #98

alexandercrohde wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for comparison, I lived in SF for about 4 years. I saved a huge amount of money. I lived with 3 roommates to save money, I sold my car, you won't get stabbed anywhere in SF (so live in the sketchy area it'll get nicer each year). My rent was $1,200 a month, a lucky find. Now don't get me wrong I hated living there, no girls, homelessness everywhere smelled like garbage, and a self-obsession that pretended to be…

> you won't get stabbed anywhere in SF (so live in the sketchy area it'll get nicer each year) This is flatly untrue and bad advice - there are absolutely areas of San Francisco where you run the risk of being the victim of physical violence. Some people will be comfortable living in that kind of environment but many won't, and suggesting that all of San Francisco is uniformly safe is irresponsible.

You run the risk of getting stabbed anywhere in the world. While the risk may be higher than average in certain parts of SF (eg Tenderloin) it's still not that high.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#142

Post by bpchaps » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 5:54 PM UTC

guiomie wrote: post #122

bpchaps wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A SF barista makes 18k/yr. Can they make it on that? Sure. But when a third of your salary is on food - based on your quote - it's not going to be comfortable and saving is a stretch to say the least. Especially with student loans and such.

"A SF barista makes 18k/yr" ... where did you come up with this number? Sounds quite unrealistic...

Here's how - https://imgur.com/a/S00fk

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#143

Post by koolba » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 5:54 PM UTC

Qworg wrote: post #126

rpeden wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an irrelevant side note - what do envision when you think of 'Uber for cats'? - A cat sharing service? - A 'cat on demand' service that allows you to reap the benefits of cat ownership without having to worry about acquisition and maintenance costs? - A taxi service for cats? I could envision paying for all of those, under the right circumstances. So such a company would likely have at least a few dollars of rea…

Not the GP, but... Obviously cat sharing, but you'll have to find a way to take a margin from what was nominally a goodwill activity. Maybe you pay cat owners in cathours (pronounced cath-ours), and have a marketplace where people can buy and sell cathours. Even better, make Catcoin (CC), set up an ICO, and get to work.

> Obviously cat sharing, but you'll have to find a way to take a margin from what was nominally a goodwill activity.

This exists though not quite Uber / on-demand style. You need to go to the cats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_caf%C3%A9

Very big in Japan.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#144

Post by spamizbad » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 5:55 PM UTC

humanrebar wrote: post #81

cachemiss wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are bootstrapping, and you are starting a company in an area that does not need the top tier of engineers (which is most of them, regardless of how they talk about hiring the best), I'd consider starting someplace low cost. I think college towns in the midwest / rust belt are untapped resources, or areas that used to have strong technically focused companies that moved away. I've personally seen founders boots…

I share you bullishness about "untapped" cities, but: > ...starting a company in an area that does not need the top tier of engineers... As far as quality of talent, the "top tier of engineers" aren't all in SF, Seattle, or NYC. There are plenty of "top tier" engineers in all kinds of places. If you mean the "top tier" in pay rates are in those cities, that probably true. But those cities also have a ridiculous cost…

Also: Even though there are many top-tier engineers in those hotspots, just how gettable are they if you're hiring in SV/Seattle/NYC?

Based on my purely anecdotal experience, engineers that would be easy no-hires in Chicago get scooped up into senior roles in the valley because everyone there is so desperate to hire anyone who can fizzbuzz. It's the best area to be in if you're one of the best... and also if you're one of the worst. Top-flight talent exists in these "hotspots" but they're all "Unobtanium" for anything that isn't a unicorn, IPO'd, or founded by one of their friends.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#145

Post by melq » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 5:56 PM UTC

xiaosun wrote: post #96

mmm94720 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me describe a typical mid-career Silicon Valley salaried tech worker scenario. YMMV of course. Base comp 200K Bonus, stock, 401k match 50K Total gross comp 250K Expenses: Taxes 40% (30% fed, 10% state) 100K Rental housing 40K ($3300/month) Food 15K Transportation 15K Discretionary spending 20K Total expenses 190K As a result, you can comfortably save $60K per year. Of course, kids and housing options will add gre…

How do you spend $41/day on food and another $41/day on transportation? That's pretty ridiculous budgeting...

I don't live in the Bay Area but my options are spend 30$/day parking or add an extra 2+ hours to my total commute time, I can see spending 41 a day pretty easily.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#146

Post by tlogan » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 5:56 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #7

> Often times there are hard barriers preventing people from starting a company. In these cases my best advice is to move to a tech hub (preferably the Bay Area) and work for a tech company until you can save the money I had to laugh there. Moving to the Bay Area will reduce your ability to save money, not increase it. I was probably saving 40-50% of my salary when I worked in Nowhereville, Florida. With the housing…

I guess they wanted to say "starting a startup" - not starting a company.

To have a successful company (not a VC startup) you really just need to code a little and know to market/sell (or have co-founder who can do that). And you will be fine - not rich but fine.

Of course, the above is only true if you live in Bay Area... If you live in Bay Area, then you will need at least $250K/year to live "fine". Which is about $150K/year in Austin, TX.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#147

Post by greglindahl » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 5:56 PM UTC

powera wrote: post #31

mattdawson wrote: post #28

The lack of even a nod to diversity issues (race, gender, class, etc.) that the tech industry is dealing (or not dealing with) is tone deaf and insulting to the extreme.

This insistence that everything always has to be about diversity is both insulting and counter-productive. Maybe some of the time we can talk about things that work for all people?

That's exactly what diversity is about -- taking the status quo and changing it to something that works for all people.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#148

Post by Bahamut » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 5:56 PM UTC

JohnDotAwesome wrote: post #53

mmm94720 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me describe a typical mid-career Silicon Valley salaried tech worker scenario. YMMV of course. Base comp 200K Bonus, stock, 401k match 50K Total gross comp 250K Expenses: Taxes 40% (30% fed, 10% state) 100K Rental housing 40K ($3300/month) Food 15K Transportation 15K Discretionary spending 20K Total expenses 190K As a result, you can comfortably save $60K per year. Of course, kids and housing options will add gre…

Is it really typical in SV tech to get that much matching on 401k and/or get a bonus? Seems extraordinarily high. Maybe that bonus, stock, 401k match is sort of an unknown that one may or may not receive (in which case, you'd be comfortably saving $10k/year). At any rate, if those bonuses are real, maybe I need to move out of Texas.

Only at the big tech companies in the Bay Area will you get a hefty bonus, and typically generally mainly in the Valley in particular - startups generally don't pay that (occasionally you might find a startup that does 401k match though).

I haven't been at my BigCo long enough to say how much a bonus is like, but I do have max 401k match at 3% of my salary (rises up to 6% given time), which alone turns out to be ~$5k. Employee stock purchasing program with 15% discount with 10% of my salary maxed out also turns out to be ~$25k in stock (savings of ~$4k) - this does not include whatever benefits might come out of refresh stock grants, or performance bonuses. $50k in extra benefits does sound quite attainable though, even for an engineer not on $200k base at a BigCo.

YMMV of course.

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#149

Post by lliamander » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 5:56 PM UTC

nichochar wrote: post #42

This is rather true in practice, but I find it tremendously depressing. I have found that the executive path is actually the one that most of the scumbags take, it is the one that attracts the most people, and those people are usually not likable, they're salespeople that sell themselves all day. The third group, the one that actually creates value, is accurately represented as not as successful both in terms of mone…

> The third group, the one that actually creates value, is accurately represented as not as successful both in terms of money and prestige. I think this is a damn shame, and we should be striving to stop that.

You may like Eric Dietrich's book Developer Hegemony[1]. He talks about both why the third group is less successful and how people within that group can potentially improve their situation within the current system.

> I have found that the executive path is actually the one that most of the scumbags take, it is the one that attracts the most people, and those people are usually not likable, they're salespeople that sell themselves all day.

I've seen the sliminess as well, but regardless of how ethical you are, in order to be successful in any domain you must be prepared to defend your interests (which people might perceive as "scumbag" behavior) and convince others that you have something of value to offer them (i.e. "selling").

I think it is possible (though difficult) to be both successful and moral, but success isn't everything. I think certainly possible to have a fulfilling life and not be successful. But (and I'm not claiming this applies to you) I would caution people in general against getting stuck in the rut of telling themselves that they value things other than success and at the same time resenting those who are successful.

[1] https://www.daedtech.com/developer-hegemony-the-crazy-idea-t...

Re: Three Paths in the Tech Industry: Founder, Executive, or Employee

#150

Post by Akujin » Thu, Sep 28, 2017, 5:56 PM UTC

urda wrote: post #113

gxs wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an insult to the thousands of people who make it in the bay area on barista wages. Just fucking wow. You can save in the bay area, live with roommates and pay comfortably . You don't even have to do that forever, just long enough to move up a bit in your job and save for a downpayment if buying a home is your goal. Not to mention if your spouse works and makes similar money then you can live a really high qua…

> This is an insult to the thousands of people who make it in the bay area on barista wages. No this is the reality of living in the Bay Area. People who are living on barista wages are getting screwed by it. It's an insult to them that this is the reality today. > Just fucking wow. Alright calm down, you're on HN not reddit. You can express your viewpoint without being dramatic and vulgar. > You can save in the bay…

I don't understand where people get off telling someone who makes six figures that they should "get a roommate" just so that they can actually save some money.