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How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

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Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#161

Post by Mz »

didgeoridoo wrote: post #155
Mz wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a homemaker for a couple of decades. So, I spent a great deal more time physically at home than my husband and the house was where most of my work occurred. When my husband left his dirty clothes on the floor, I could either live with the clutter and step over it or pick up after him. Either choice was still an imposition on me that lowered my quality of life. Furthermore, since doing laundry was one of my resp…

I think it comes down to communication. If my wife said "put your clothes in the hamper because I want you to, and that's where they belong", I might fail to put them there. If she said "put your clothes in the hamper because leaving them on the floor makes my life a lot harder, and also I might get sick", I would never fail to put them there. By framing the issue as something I care about (my wife's health and happi…

And the author of the article states that communication is not happening effectively in her marriage in part due to gender norms influencing mental models and expectations. And I am telling you that effective communication in my marriage on that one detail took 16 years to finally achieve.

Most of the comments here are pretty dismissive and attacking of the article and its author, while acting like she is just an unreasonable bitch. Most participants here are male. The author is female.

Women tend to just not get listened to. Getting heard is a huge uphill battle. The effort involved in trying to find some means to get there gets us accused of being nags, etc.

That is, in fact, the entire point of the article.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#163

Post by philh »

EarthIsHome wrote: post #99
JPKab wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my wife wrote this article, I'd be furious. I agree: This article is blatantly sexist, and the author is essentially complaining about her partner not telepathically reading her mind to "sense" her completely arbitrary standards for cleanliness in the home. She makes a big point of how she "controls the budget", and yet I have a strong suspicion that she wouldn't allow her husband to do so if he offered. Let's be…

> Socks laying on the floor doesn't affect people's health. You're missing the point. She mentions that the clean house isn't the goal, the clean house would "simply be a bonus" > complaining about her partner not telepathically reading her mind to "sense" her completely arbitrary standards She also makes the point that she has told him what she wants.

> The real gift I wanted was to be relieved of the emotional labor of a single task that had been nagging at the back of my mind. The clean house would simply be a bonus.

The clean house is presumably a goal, here. Otherwise, the obvious solution is not to clean the house.

(I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having the clean house as a goal. But it's important to know what your goals are, so that you can decide which actions will further your goals.)

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#164

Post by tenaciousDaniel »

flachsechs wrote: post #108
gyardley wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience communication happens again and again and again over a period of years until the woman gives up in exasperation and just seethes silently. It's hard to get someone to engage in emotional labor (or as I like to call it, 'giving a fuck') when they simply don't give a fuck, no matter how much you communicate. Since not caring enough to do the basic gruntwork associated with a decent relationship is almo…

> is almost always a male problem in our society no it's not. maybe i can counter your sexist statement with another one: women just complain louder about it.

Exactly. The lack of self awareness in her comment was astounding. But those are the types of comments we should expect when we think of some people's testimony as "anecdotes" and other's as "Lived Experiences".

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#165

Post by klipt »

dnautics wrote: post #159
mmjaa wrote: post #48

This is a highly charged, and - frankly sexist - article about how people have expectations that are unfulfilled because they simply don't communicate with each other . There isn't a single example of this "emotional labor" in the article, where a consideration is given to "the man" about how much labor it takes, emotionally, to keep up with someone who has high expectations for their environment, but does not commun…

I'm male. I have a female roommate. (We're not involved) I do almost all of the dishes, I take out the trash, I clean the kitchen and the public bathroom, and tidy the dining space and wash the floors, and I harbor zero resentment towards her. I just value cleanliness more, so I should expect to pay a premium (in labor) for that preference. I also don't require any praise for what I do. The cleanliness is it's own re…

No man, she's making you do unpaid labor because of her deep seated sexism towards men! /s

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#166

Post by [deleted] »

mmjaa wrote: post #145
acc1558 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have wholly failed to grasp the concept of sexism. "Women are bad at tech" is a sexist statement, while "men are bad at emotional labor" is not. This is no more a double standard than saying 0/1 is 0, while 1/0 is undefined. The asymmetry exists a priori, and so the balance of those statements is descriptive of sexism, not causal.

Nonsense. Associating behaviour with sex, is sexism, pure and simple . The fact that he is a man has nothing to do with the fact that he doesn't have the same agency - nor the 'right' to complain about it - as his wife does. Making that association a part of the discussion is sexism.

[deleted]

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#167

Post by brighteyes »

RUG3Y wrote: post #102
gyardley wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience communication happens again and again and again over a period of years until the woman gives up in exasperation and just seethes silently. It's hard to get someone to engage in emotional labor (or as I like to call it, 'giving a fuck') when they simply don't give a fuck, no matter how much you communicate. Since not caring enough to do the basic gruntwork associated with a decent relationship is almo…

Maybe he's never going to give a shit because her expectations are just too high. American women have sky high expectations.

> American women have sky high expectations

This is as sexist as the article itself.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#168

Post by toasterlovin »

turc1656 wrote: post #121
oijoinoifsnf wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird that the Internet is the first place to say things like: "Maybe women don't WANT to be in tech", "there are biological differences", etc. but also turn around and complain that it's sexist to imply men (on average) have difficulties with emotional communication.

The word "want" describes desire, willingness, and a level of interest. Saying someone or a group of people are not interested in doing something is entirely different than saying they are less capable. The proper equivalent to "men (on average) have difficulties with emotional communication" for the example you gave would be "women are not as naturally capable as men when it comes to tech jobs."

Perhaps you're undervaluing the degree to which desire promotes skill. Maybe it's that men have difficulties with emotional communication because they don't have a desire to communicate emotionally and, thus, have not built up the skill set.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#169

Post by shiven »

dnautics wrote: post #159
mmjaa wrote: post #48

This is a highly charged, and - frankly sexist - article about how people have expectations that are unfulfilled because they simply don't communicate with each other . There isn't a single example of this "emotional labor" in the article, where a consideration is given to "the man" about how much labor it takes, emotionally, to keep up with someone who has high expectations for their environment, but does not commun…

I'm male. I have a female roommate. (We're not involved) I do almost all of the dishes, I take out the trash, I clean the kitchen and the public bathroom, and tidy the dining space and wash the floors, and I harbor zero resentment towards her. I just value cleanliness more, so I should expect to pay a premium (in labor) for that preference. I also don't require any praise for what I do. The cleanliness is it's own re…

I flipped your and your roommates genders in my head, and was immediately incensed about the continued repression of women in our society - looks the program is working as intended. Um hmm.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#170

Post by sblom »

dleslie wrote: post #116
oijoinoifsnf wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird that the Internet is the first place to say things like: "Maybe women don't WANT to be in tech", "there are biological differences", etc. but also turn around and complain that it's sexist to imply men (on average) have difficulties with emotional communication.

It's almost like the internet is a platform where many different voices are heard.

Or at least where many different voices are published. :)
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