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How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

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Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#131

Post by zethraeus »

dan00 wrote: post #87
Waterluvian wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That resonates with me. But I struggle a lot. I feel like my wife's irrationality on some subjects forces us to both spend some of our very limited time here feeling anxious and negative. It's frustrating and feels very one sided. Why can't she meet me half way and stop being so anxious on half the events? Well.. because irrationality doesn't work that way; I get that. I think that true zen for me is finding a way to…

Please don't directly connect irrationality with anxiety. Sure, there's a connection between the rational and emotional parts in humans, but this doesn't mean that being anxious automatically means being irrational. Quite a few fears have their origin in the childhood, when the rational parts of the brain haven't been that developed, and perhaps that's the reason why these fears can have such a deep impact. When thes…

As someone who often has anxiety: that anxiety is often irrational.

Extrapolating fears rooted in one environment to another in which there is no danger is: 1) very human 2) irrational.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#132

Post by a_c_s »

cmiles74 wrote: post #20
didgeoridoo wrote: post #7

I'm not sure I buy this. In my experience at least, it all comes down to standards — it sounds like this woman has higher standards for what constitutes a "running household", and gets frustrated when her husband doesn't share those standards. It sounds like he would be content with boxes on the floor, dirty bathrooms, etc. When she asks him to raise the house to her standard, she is asking him to adopt her perspecti…

As a male, I can offer something of a counter-point: clutter makes me uncomfortable and I find it hard to ignore it or "let it go". If there's a full trash bin, I feel that I need to empty that bin before I can throw anything else away. This feeling is not shared by my partner who will happily wedge an item in around the edge or pile on top with the intention of emptying the bin at a later time, when it's more conven…

A compromise could also be to divide the tasks differently: instead of the tidy and less tidy partners being 50/50 on taking the garbage out, perhaps it should be 99/1 on garbage (the less tidy person only handles it in unusual circumstances) but the less tidy person takes on different responsibilities like running the finances or taking on car maintenance or cooking dinner.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#133

Post by xor1 »

chadlavi wrote: post #71
saint_fiasco wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are kind of exemplifying the attitude that the parent comment complains about. You have standards that are not being met, but instead of communicating clearly you just try to shame the other person. I understand communicating such simple things is not as simple as the thing would make it seem. In fact, the point of the article was that such work is unappreciated. But just because it's not appreciated it doesn't m…

Let me be more clear, then: saying that a female author is sexist for expecting her partner to take an equal share of the emotional labor of their shared life is beyond disgusting. I can't say I'm at all surprised to see that sort of mens-rightsism around ycombinator, though.

>Let me be more clear, then: saying that a female author is sexist for expecting her partner to take an equal share of the emotional labor of their shared life is beyond disgusting.

Where did this "emotional labor" term even come from? Talking to people on the phone, doing household work -- why does this qualify as "emotional behavior", and not actual, you know, labor? Considering that plenty of people do both of these things as part of their dayjob.

When I hear that term, I think of having to walk on eggshells around someone who is an emotionally abusive partner.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#134

Post by showmetherec »

lmm wrote: post #82
DanHulton wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean - I'm always looking for ways to please my partner, and to a lesser degree, my friends, family and co-workers. Little trinkets I think she might like, a surprise dinner, doing some dishes that we've been letting slide, making tea, refilling water, whatever. And she does the same for me. And my friends, family, and co-workers tend to do the same as well. It's not silly. It's called kindness, and it's part of em…

Is she having to do a disproportionate amount of pleasing her partner though? We don't get that perspective, only that she's putting more effort than him into the parts she cares about - which might go both ways.

Yes, but that’s not because she’s a woman (as she appears to claim), it’s because she hasn’t come to some sort of agreement about how to run the house. She’s talking past her husband to millions of people.

Had the gender roles been swapped, it would have been a very hard to stomach article for a lot of people.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#135

Post by krapsna »

xor1 wrote: post #58
MrFantastic wrote: post #40

This reminds me of my ex. I would make the bed because she never did it. She would complain that I didn't make the top sheet tight enough. My response was if you want the sheets tighter, make the bed yourself. It's childish to expect someone else to care about something as much as you do. Did the author make her expectations clear or was she expecting her husband to read her mind? It sounds like she was expecting her…

The author sounds like someone with an undiagnosed personality disorder. Normalizing behavior like this is ridiculous.

I was married to a woman who (after marriage) was diagnosed with a personality disorder. Reading this article was like a look back into my marriage.

I was always being told about everything I did that failed to meet her standards, or failed to do at all, and how it was because I didn't care about her enough to do it the way she wanted it done.

Then, when I'd try to do things in anticipation of her ever changing priorities, or to offload things from her plate I'd be read the riot act. Clearly it wasn't because I was trying to be considerate and meet her ever changing standards. I was obviously because I was criticizing her in some kind of chauvinistic way, or undermining her position in the household.

I'm very happy to be out of that situation, and I completely agree that normalizing this type of behavior is ridiculous.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#136

Post by hsod »

greedo wrote: post #57
TFortunato wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are missing the forest for the trees a bit here by focusing just on cleaning standards. As the author said, part of the emotional labor is the management of the household but also the management of relationships within the house. This isn't about forcing a man "to fully adopt her perspective." This is about the idea that women are more often expected to be the ones to suggest a compromise, or to be the on…

Why must she? Because she's the one who has issues with it. A relationship needs communication, since mind-reading doesn't work yet. I'll try to avoid using he/she since the article itself is very sexist, as is your post. Partner's have different expectations, and one partner may not see an issue until it's brought to their attention. It has nothing to do with gender, or emotional labor or any other drivel. It has to…

"This is outrageously sexist. In my relationship..."

Did you miss the words "more often expected" in your quote? I don't see how it's sexist at all, let alone 'outrageously'.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#138

Post by RUG3Y »

DanHulton wrote: post #34
dozzie wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you didn't understand parent's point. It's not women that are expected to put effort, it's the party that's not satisfied with current state that is expected to put effort. > Why doesn't the husband notice that his wife is always picking up after him, or that she is not recieving acknowledgement of the work she has done, work that he feels should be acknowledged when he does it? Blind spots of attention. When…

I mean - I'm always looking for ways to please my partner, and to a lesser degree, my friends, family and co-workers. Little trinkets I think she might like, a surprise dinner, doing some dishes that we've been letting slide, making tea, refilling water, whatever. And she does the same for me. And my friends, family, and co-workers tend to do the same as well. It's not silly. It's called kindness, and it's part of em…

You can look all you want for ways to please people, but there's no guarantee that you'll magically come across the very thing that will do the trick.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#139

Post by ada1981 »

athenot wrote: post #125
ada1981 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you in NYC by chance? I'd love to invite you and your partner to join us for a Psychedlic Love Workshop aka The Love Dojo (as our guest). My partner and I curate a group of couples doing this work (and singles looking to find a relationship with this context), and practice some really cutting edge tools. For example, we've pioneered a version of breathwork to be used in times of conflict with your partner that ca…

No, in ATL. But I've led groups in similar ways, though more from a Catholic contemplative angle. Keep it up though, that's awesome!

Mathew 7:5 alludes to the power of relationship as a mirror / path. I'd love if more people practiced this on a deep level.

The somatic approach is an excellent addition to this work, if you have a chance to try it out, you won't be disappointed.

Re: How Emotional Labor is Dragging Down Gender Equality

#140

Post by didgeoridoo »

RUG3Y wrote: post #124
didgeoridoo wrote: post #7

I'm not sure I buy this. In my experience at least, it all comes down to standards — it sounds like this woman has higher standards for what constitutes a "running household", and gets frustrated when her husband doesn't share those standards. It sounds like he would be content with boxes on the floor, dirty bathrooms, etc. When she asks him to raise the house to her standard, she is asking him to adopt her perspecti…

These are the kinds of issues you're supposed to discuss before you marry someone. She has higher standards, and she ends up doing all kinds of (unnecessary in her husband's mind) work to keep those standards, which are hers alone.

Discussion is one thing, but I think the real test is cohabitation. There are lots of things you think you can deal with in theory, but when faced with it every day, you are forced to either 1) come to a compromise, 2) let it go, or 3) quietly seethe about it for the rest of your life.

Fortunately, my wife is a clinical psychologist, so #3 was off the table in our house.

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