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Ending factory farming as soon as possible

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Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#41

Post by golemotron »

nol13 wrote: post #38
golemotron wrote: post #27

Am I the only one who wonders how what the actual difference in suffering is in free range vs. factory farming? There might be a lot of projection going on - people imagining themselves in the same circumstance as the animals and missing the mark because of the differences between our sense of life and that of other animals. As an example, I once spoke to a person who thought the movie _The March of the Penguins_ was…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5Gqf7jQvZg

I'm not sure I'm convinced that's happiness. I jump like that when I need to pee.

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#42

Post by EGreg »

civilian wrote: post #32
EGreg wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well can't the same argument be made for cutting costs in prisons and working inmates to the hilt?

A better answer is hiding in your posts. It's that: We believe that humans, even criminals, have dignity and should be treated decently despite their wrongdoings. The argument, then, is that we could extend that "deserving of decent treatment" to animals. It doesn't need a billionaire to make this happen (which is why you're confusing me), it just needs culture to change.

My question I guess is this:

Does unregulated Capitalism have the mechanisms to abolish such things with time? If there remain even 10% of meat eaters who want to pay $1 for a hamburger, who can stop the factory farms??

The only thing I can think of is a billionaire buying all the animals the way slaves were redeemed for money in some countries. After that no competing farms could start because they wouldn't have the animals to start with.

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#43

Post by StavrosK »

blizkreeg wrote: post #20
NeoBasilisk wrote: post #2

I think lab-grown meat (if it ever becomes economically feasible) is the only thing that can ever put a dent in factory farming.

I'm all for lab-grown meat but I do question if you'll ever fully satisfy the meat lovers. In my opinion, a better approach would be a hybrid meat/fake meat option which would still make a huge dent in factory farming but appeal to the palates of those who love their cheeseburger. If we can cut down "real" meat consumption by even half, you could in theory make all cows free range.

I don't know about other meat lovers, but yours truly can't wait for lab-grown meat to be a thing so he can finally stop killing animals for food.

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#44

Post by kmm »

DougN7 wrote: post #8

Just pointing out an unintended consequence I saw in a cartoon: As soon as nobody farms cows for meat, milk, and leather, cows will become an endangered species/extinct because nobody will pay to keep them alive. And there's not much space where they could survive on their own in the wild.

Given how many megafauna we've already wiped from the face of the earth (most of them), and the utterly ridiculous idea that cows would ever become extinct if we didn't eat them, that argument seems completely disingenuous.

I won't believe for a second that people are seriously concerned about the fate of the Bos Taurus species in a discussion about factory farming, or eating meat in general

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#45

Post by golemotron »

goatlover wrote: post #34
golemotron wrote: post #27

Am I the only one who wonders how what the actual difference in suffering is in free range vs. factory farming? There might be a lot of projection going on - people imagining themselves in the same circumstance as the animals and missing the mark because of the differences between our sense of life and that of other animals. As an example, I once spoke to a person who thought the movie _The March of the Penguins_ was…

Animals aren't totally different than us. We share a lot of similarities biologically, and even in our brain structures. It's safe to assume that herd animals need a decent amount of space to roam around, and that crowding is stressful and possibly causes mental illnesses. This is even more true of animals like pigs. Imagine dogs living their lives out in kennels. Also consider the change in behavior in zoo animals w…

Thanks. That really has me wondering about the penguins now. Hundreds of thousands of years and evolution has made no accommodation for their emotional well being.

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#46

Post by lprubin »

DougN7 wrote: post #8

Just pointing out an unintended consequence I saw in a cartoon: As soon as nobody farms cows for meat, milk, and leather, cows will become an endangered species/extinct because nobody will pay to keep them alive. And there's not much space where they could survive on their own in the wild.

As a thought experiment, would it be OK to breed human slaves because at least they got to exist?

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#47

Post by lprubin »

StavrosK wrote: post #43
blizkreeg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for lab-grown meat but I do question if you'll ever fully satisfy the meat lovers. In my opinion, a better approach would be a hybrid meat/fake meat option which would still make a huge dent in factory farming but appeal to the palates of those who love their cheeseburger. If we can cut down "real" meat consumption by even half, you could in theory make all cows free range.

I don't know about other meat lovers, but yours truly can't wait for lab-grown meat to be a thing so he can finally stop killing animals for food.

Out of curiosity, what's stopping you from going vegan or vegetarian in the interim?

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#48

Post by SwellJoe »

belorn wrote: post #28

Looking through the different approaches on the list, I am missing one large one. Fishermen are currently throwing away a majority of caught fish because people only buy a very small selection of species (which also differ between nations). We could more than double the amount of fish meat that get eaten without changing the number of fish being killed, and yet for mostly cultural reasons we don't.

While I'd rather see mass fishing stopped entirely (and I don't eat fish, or any other meat, on ethical grounds), that's a valid point. I often think of the fact that lobster was once considered trash, or only to be consumed by the lowest classes, and only through an effective marketing campaign did it become a luxury food.

But, realistically, many ocean ecosystems are already on the brink of collapse. Merely increasing production won't save those ecosystems; though maybe it'd stave it off for a few years. Our industrial economies have produced seemingly limitless consumption and waste.

When you add up all of the wasted food at every stage of our agricultural systems, it is staggering. It's not just fish that's being wasted, it's everything. Solving the waste problem is more boring than growing meat in a lab, but it might be more effective at reducing hunger and reducing ecological destruction.

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#49

Post by viraptor »

civilian wrote: post #35
blizkreeg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

perhaps it's my ignorance as i haven't tasted it.

Okay. I was wondering if you thought the labelling would turn people off. (America has a lot of random fear-of-science. See: anti-GMOs, anti-vaccine, anti-evolution sentiments.) Or maybe that it would be that people wouldn't actually be able to reocognize what cut of meat it was from, and it would be some kind of uncanny valley problem. Or a kind of macho attitude like "if a pig didn't die, it doesn't count as breakf…

It's even better. Unless you really want to have it attached to a rib, or fat chunks in between for some reason, I believe it's going to be the best quality steak meat. Basically a mass produced perfect filet.

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#50

Post by StavrosK »

lprubin wrote: post #47
StavrosK wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about other meat lovers, but yours truly can't wait for lab-grown meat to be a thing so he can finally stop killing animals for food.

Out of curiosity, what's stopping you from going vegan or vegetarian in the interim?

Pretty much only this equation:

meat tastiness * degree it affects me > immorality of killing animals * degree it affects me

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