Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ending factory farming as soon as possible

80000hours.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 83 posts

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#31

Post by EGreg »

apenwarr wrote: post #29
EGreg wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well can't the same argument be made for cutting costs in prisons and working inmates to the hilt?

Of course. That's why you need regulations, not billionaires, in both cases.

So can advocates of capitalism admit that it needs to be regulated? How would factory farms have been abolished under anarcho capitalism? How would child labor or sweatshops be abolished? They say that under the NAP there would be no coersion, but clearly there is.

They say private ownership of animals will prevent their extinction, like commercial bees. That may be true but what about their welfare?

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#32

Post by civilian »

EGreg wrote: post #24
robertwiblin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't the old owners just open new factory farms and outcompete the now-free range ones by being cheaper?

Well can't the same argument be made for cutting costs in prisons and working inmates to the hilt?

A better answer is hiding in your posts. It's that: We believe that humans, even criminals, have dignity and should be treated decently despite their wrongdoings. The argument, then, is that we could extend that "deserving of decent treatment" to animals.

It doesn't need a billionaire to make this happen (which is why you're confusing me), it just needs culture to change.

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#33

Post by robertwiblin »

golemotron wrote: post #27

Am I the only one who wonders how what the actual difference in suffering is in free range vs. factory farming? There might be a lot of projection going on - people imagining themselves in the same circumstance as the animals and missing the mark because of the differences between our sense of life and that of other animals. As an example, I once spoke to a person who thought the movie _The March of the Penguins_ was…

We talk about this in the episode! :)

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#34

Post by goatlover »

golemotron wrote: post #27

Am I the only one who wonders how what the actual difference in suffering is in free range vs. factory farming? There might be a lot of projection going on - people imagining themselves in the same circumstance as the animals and missing the mark because of the differences between our sense of life and that of other animals. As an example, I once spoke to a person who thought the movie _The March of the Penguins_ was…

Animals aren't totally different than us. We share a lot of similarities biologically, and even in our brain structures. It's safe to assume that herd animals need a decent amount of space to roam around, and that crowding is stressful and possibly causes mental illnesses.

This is even more true of animals like pigs. Imagine dogs living their lives out in kennels. Also consider the change in behavior in zoo animals when their habitats are redesigned to more closely resemble their native habitats.

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#35

Post by civilian »

blizkreeg wrote: post #30
civilian wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you think that lab-grown meat will satisfy meat lovers? Lab grown meat is still biologically meat.

perhaps it's my ignorance as i haven't tasted it.

Okay. I was wondering if you thought the labelling would turn people off. (America has a lot of random fear-of-science. See: anti-GMOs, anti-vaccine, anti-evolution sentiments.) Or maybe that it would be that people wouldn't actually be able to reocognize what cut of meat it was from, and it would be some kind of uncanny valley problem. Or a kind of macho attitude like "if a pig didn't die, it doesn't count as breakfast". (I've seriously heard a guy say that!)

Yeah, if you're only concerned about taste/texture/juiciness, I think that's the easiest concern. lab grown meat is still the same muscle cells. I would bet a lot of money that it's going to taste awesome.

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#36

Post by mattzito »

sien wrote: post #18
Cleisthenes wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ending factory farming does not end farming. People still have horses despite them not being as useful as they once were. Ending factory farming would likely actually increase the variety of cows and other animals, which will generally help their health.

There were 21M horses in the US in 1900. In 1960 there were 3M. https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/12516/how-common...

The GP said increased variety, not increased numbers.

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#37

Post by golemotron »

robertwiblin wrote: post #33
golemotron wrote: post #27

Am I the only one who wonders how what the actual difference in suffering is in free range vs. factory farming? There might be a lot of projection going on - people imagining themselves in the same circumstance as the animals and missing the mark because of the differences between our sense of life and that of other animals. As an example, I once spoke to a person who thought the movie _The March of the Penguins_ was…

We talk about this in the episode! :)

I'm curious but not 3 hours and 16 minutes curious.

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#38

Post by nol13 »

golemotron wrote: post #27

Am I the only one who wonders how what the actual difference in suffering is in free range vs. factory farming? There might be a lot of projection going on - people imagining themselves in the same circumstance as the animals and missing the mark because of the differences between our sense of life and that of other animals. As an example, I once spoke to a person who thought the movie _The March of the Penguins_ was…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5Gqf7jQvZg

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#39

Post by chiefalchemist »

I don't think most people really care about animals suffering, or not. However, most people do care about themselves and their children.

Long to short, factor farming generates a lot of ground level pollution. Furthermore, those animals also generate a lot of greenhouse gases. Frame the problem in terms of human suffering and more people are likely to pay attention.

Years ago there was a NY Times Sunday magazine feature article on factor pig farming. It was enlightening. Unfortunately, I've searched for it and can't seem to find it. If you can find, do read it.

p.s. Growing crops to be fed to farm animals is also very inefficient. More people would have more food if we all ate less animal protein.

Re: Ending factory farming as soon as possible

#40

Post by minikites »

golemotron wrote: post #27

Am I the only one who wonders how what the actual difference in suffering is in free range vs. factory farming? There might be a lot of projection going on - people imagining themselves in the same circumstance as the animals and missing the mark because of the differences between our sense of life and that of other animals. As an example, I once spoke to a person who thought the movie _The March of the Penguins_ was…

Chickens peck at themselves when caged and cows get stuck on fences trying to retrieve their calves when the calves are separated from them. It's not that difficult to see the suffering in factory-farmed animals.
Post reply on HN