Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What happens after a defendant is found not guilty by reason of insanity?

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 143 posts

Re: What happens after a defendant is found not guilty by reason of insanity?

#11

Post by snuxoll »

mabbo wrote: post #7

There was a very high profile case in Ontario over a decade ago. Basically, the man went into an absolute psychotic state on the travelling bus and cut the head off a stranger while everyone else on the bus ran for their lives. A decade later, he's been released- under a lot of conditions and on a lot of medication, but people are very upset that he'd ever be free at all. In interviews, he's a very interesting person…

Is he being monitored to ensure he stays on his regimen of medication? Is he having regular psychiatric evaluations, and has a psychiatrist deemed him NOT a threat to himself and others? If YES to ALL of the above, I have no problem with it. After a period of being monitored then remove the restrictions.

This is one of the biggest issues we have in this country, our prison system is used to make up for a lack of mental health care.

Re: What happens after a defendant is found not guilty by reason of insanity?

#12

Post by dmix »

stevenwoo wrote: post #8
dmix wrote: post #2

> In most states, like New York, there is no limit to the duration of that commitment. Couldn't the supreme court rule this type of punishment as "cruel and unusual punishment"? Technically there is a policy of reviewing "every 2 years" in perpetuity, so it's not like they don't have a formal punishment. They mention a Supreme Court ruling regarding "due process" but not the 8th amendment. So it's basically as if thi…

Do you consider it much different from the practice of denying parole when convicts continue to profess innocence instead of professing contriteness? If someone is really innocent, they are in the catch 22 of staying in prison for life because parole boards deny release but if they just lie and pretend to feel contrite they get out on parole right away after serving time. There was a case on NPR recently but there's…

While I see that as a valid issue in it's own right... I don't see the connection here, sorry.

Cruel and unusual punishment applies regardless of actual or claimed innocence, they could have totally done the crime and the punishment could still be unconstitutional.

This is not a catch-22 side effect of inflexible poorly written law, but an intentional side-stepping of built-in protections against abuse of power.

Re: What happens after a defendant is found not guilty by reason of insanity?

#13

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

You've got to get the ordinary man into the state in which he says 'Sadism' automatically when he hears the word Punishment." And then one would have carte blanche. Mark did not immediately follow this. But the Fairy pointed out that what had hampered every English police force up to date was precisely the idea of deserved punishment. For desert was always finite: you could do so much to the criminal and no more. Remedial treatment, on the other hand, need have no fixed limit; it could go on till it had effected a cure, and those who were carrying it out would decide when that was. And if cure were humane and desirable, how much more prevention? Soon anyone who had ever been in the hands of the police at all would come under the control of the N.I.C.E.; in the end, every citizen.

- C.S. Lewis - That Hideous Strength

Re: What happens after a defendant is found not guilty by reason of insanity?

#14

Post by seiferteric »

mabbo wrote: post #7

There was a very high profile case in Ontario over a decade ago. Basically, the man went into an absolute psychotic state on the travelling bus and cut the head off a stranger while everyone else on the bus ran for their lives. A decade later, he's been released- under a lot of conditions and on a lot of medication, but people are very upset that he'd ever be free at all. In interviews, he's a very interesting person…

It is interesting because different people and different countries seem to have different ideas about he purpose of the the justice system. Punishment/retribution, correction/rehabilitation, or protecting the public. Someone like this may not be guilty due to insanity, but still be a danger to the public for example.

Re: What happens after a defendant is found not guilty by reason of insanity?

#15

Post by alkonaut »

mabbo wrote: post #7

There was a very high profile case in Ontario over a decade ago. Basically, the man went into an absolute psychotic state on the travelling bus and cut the head off a stranger while everyone else on the bus ran for their lives. A decade later, he's been released- under a lot of conditions and on a lot of medication, but people are very upset that he'd ever be free at all. In interviews, he's a very interesting person…

> But he did cut a guy's head off. Would you want to live next to the guy who did that while not in control of himself?

Well, if he is considered sane by trustworthy professionals, then why not?

I can't see how it's different to live next to someone who is cured after 10 years of treatment, as opposed to say someone who was in prison for 10 years for the same crime (Where I live this would likely be considered more severe than the normal 12 years out after 9 though). Probably 18 or life, where "life" is often at least 18.

I'd prefer not to live next to that person, but there isn't really much I can do about living next to an ex convict, or in this case an ex- mental patient?

Re: What happens after a defendant is found not guilty by reason of insanity?

#16

Post by [deleted] »

mabbo wrote: post #7

There was a very high profile case in Ontario over a decade ago. Basically, the man went into an absolute psychotic state on the travelling bus and cut the head off a stranger while everyone else on the bus ran for their lives. A decade later, he's been released- under a lot of conditions and on a lot of medication, but people are very upset that he'd ever be free at all. In interviews, he's a very interesting person…

[deleted]

Re: What happens after a defendant is found not guilty by reason of insanity?

#17

Post by Fnoord »

bitwize wrote: post #3
dmix wrote: post #2

> In most states, like New York, there is no limit to the duration of that commitment. Couldn't the supreme court rule this type of punishment as "cruel and unusual punishment"? Technically there is a policy of reviewing "every 2 years" in perpetuity, so it's not like they don't have a formal punishment. They mention a Supreme Court ruling regarding "due process" but not the 8th amendment. So it's basically as if thi…

"But Mr. Anderson, how can your punishment be cruel and unusual... if you are not actually... being... punished?" The Supreme Court has ruled that lifetime sex offender registration, despite few demonstrable positive effects on sex offender rehabilitation or sex offense prevention and despite their only apparent goal being the unpersoning of people who commit certain offenses, does not transgress the Eight Amendment…

Ah, "public safety" measure. The naming & shaming is a byproduct or unforeseen consequence. The military calls such "collateral damage".

What is the purpose of such database? It falls or stands on recidivism. If there is a way (e.g. medical cocktail) where the chance of recidivism is close enough to 0 just like the average civilian there's no practical need for any "special" register. This stands on the premise that the sex offender actively uses their medical cocktail as prescribed.

Re: What happens after a defendant is found not guilty by reason of insanity?

#18

Post by dpatrick86 »

snuxoll wrote: post #11
mabbo wrote: post #7

There was a very high profile case in Ontario over a decade ago. Basically, the man went into an absolute psychotic state on the travelling bus and cut the head off a stranger while everyone else on the bus ran for their lives. A decade later, he's been released- under a lot of conditions and on a lot of medication, but people are very upset that he'd ever be free at all. In interviews, he's a very interesting person…

Is he being monitored to ensure he stays on his regimen of medication? Is he having regular psychiatric evaluations, and has a psychiatrist deemed him NOT a threat to himself and others? If YES to ALL of the above, I have no problem with it. After a period of being monitored then remove the restrictions. This is one of the biggest issues we have in this country, our prison system is used to make up for a lack of ment…

Interesting hypothetical: maybe the state should pay someone with an open mind (like you) handsomely to have him as a new roommate and keep an eye on him.

Re: What happens after a defendant is found not guilty by reason of insanity?

#19

Post by gyeonggi »

mabbo wrote: post #7

There was a very high profile case in Ontario over a decade ago. Basically, the man went into an absolute psychotic state on the travelling bus and cut the head off a stranger while everyone else on the bus ran for their lives. A decade later, he's been released- under a lot of conditions and on a lot of medication, but people are very upset that he'd ever be free at all. In interviews, he's a very interesting person…

Not Ontario, the case was in Manitoba.

Re: What happens after a defendant is found not guilty by reason of insanity?

#20

Post by craftyguy »

joecool1029 wrote: post #6

In Canada they get treatment and are set free without restrictions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tim_McLean#Aftermat...

Slightly off-topic, but

> After the incident, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals attempted to run an ad in the Portage Daily Graphic comparing the killing of McLean to the consumption of animals

WTF peta?

Post reply on HN