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Firefox Quantum Lands in Beta, Developer Edition

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Re: Firefox Quantum Lands in Beta, Developer Edition

#281

This a most pointless decision. making firefox fast at the expense of the extensions. why would it make people switch back to FF? because it's 1% faster than chrome? come on, it's 2k17 and few care about that. Edge might be faster than both and people still would not use it. FF had its selling point to power users which is why i'm currently browsing from ff. Now there is no reason at all to use it. I guess there is n…

The two issues are separate -- they didn't change the extensions system to make Firefox fast, they changed the extensions system because the old extensions system was a security nightmare.

It does actually play into performance, too. The new multiprocess architecture requires that extensions get updated to be compatible with it. It is possible to achieve that in the old extension API, but every single extension author would have to do that, which is just not ever going to happen.

Otherwise, if you install a multiprocess-incompatible extension, Firefox will essentially fall back into single-process whenever that extension does something. So, then a good portion of the extensions on AMO would come with severe, for the user inexplicable performance problems. Mozilla would have just not rolled that out without knowing that the switch to WebExtensions will clean that all up.

Well, and then besides that there's also the points that 1) the old extension API is quite complex, so it's comparatively hard for extension authors to write an extension, especially also qualitatively good extension, 2) the old extension API was really unstable, basically whenever Mozilla changed something about Firefox, some extensions broke, and 3) with the new extension API being based on Chrome's extension API, it becomes often trivial to port Chrome extensions to Firefox, making it much more likely that Firefox will continue to have extensions even if Chrome continues to eat up market share.

Re: Firefox Quantum Lands in Beta, Developer Edition

#282
post #52

> Firefox Quantum enhances Firefox’s integration with Pocket, the read-it-later app that Mozilla acquired last year. When you open a new tab, you’ll see currently trending web pages recommended by Pocket users so you won’t miss out on what’s hot online, as well as your top sites. That doesn't sound good. What are the reasons for having bloatware bundled in instead releasing them as separate add-on or installation opt…

Pocket is now owned by Mozilla, and is going to be open sourced. What separates that from any other functionality built into the browser, for instance Firefox Sync or Autocomplete?

1. Firefox Accounts & Sync is a terrible mess. Its security is still broken[1] and it's insanely over-engineered[2].

I really wish it shouldn't have existed, and instead Mozilla would've focused on providing an API to build a synchronization service upon. And then, whatever - their services could've been an pre-bundled extension.

2. I believe all of those SaaSes (i.e. Firefox Screenshots, too) shouldn't belong to the browser's core. Those could be distributed as pre-bundled extensions (which they actually are, but in a special way), but not as a part of the browser itself.

This is highly opinionated, though. I just feel that rather than a browser, Firefox is becoming something like a service platform. I don't like it for the same reasons I tend to value self-hosting over the dependence on others' services, and Free Software over non-free options. I recognize others may feel very differently and possibly even welcome that.

---

[1] Authentication pages are still served from network, so if you use it - you trust Mozilla to not steal (or, better say, not be forced to steal) your password and the encryption keys. The protocol is stable for quite a while so I really don't know why they're still not fixing this.

[2] I wrote an alternative self-hosted Accounts & Sync implementation, so while I'm biased I sort of know what I'm talking about here. Four different authentication protocols (BrowserID, Hawk, OAuth2 and JWT), multiple non-standard HTTP headers, and the whole system just reeks of the NIH syndrome.

Re: Firefox Quantum Lands in Beta, Developer Edition

#283
Seeing some comments about Firefox vs Chrome on macOS below, here's my experience ...

After several years of using Chrome I've switched to Firefox and I'm not going back. I do occasionally use Chrome, like for Node.js profiling.

In terms of performance, Firefox has been behaving better than Chrome for my usage patterns, using less memory too. Usage patterns matter a lot though. For example Google's own apps (e.g. G Suite) tend to be optimized for Chrome, but I'm not using Google's apps that much.

Stability has been improving, e10s is finally here, we've got multi-processing and it's working. It's not so keen on starting one process per tab as Chrome, but I like that, as memory usage tends to be better.

I've liked the "sandboxing" of Chrome's extensions, having a permissions system that's better than nothing, however I trust Firefox's Add-ons more because Mozilla has a trustworthy review system in place. At the end of the day, when you give permissions to an Add-on for accessing your data across all websites you visit, you can always get screwed with a simple and silent update from that developer and there have been countless of extensions on Chrome's store turned to spyware over night.

Either way, Firefox now has a permissions system in place, they've been introducing it gradually.

In terms of features, I love how natural the Awesome Bar is when trying to go back to a page from history. This is in comparison with Chrome that makes you do more searches on Google. It also has had some great extensions for tab management, some of which are now broken due to the transition, but I'm pretty sure they'll become available again, because hackability is in Firefox's DNA. Consider that Firefox on Android has supported plugins (and ad blockers) from day 1, whereas Chrome still doesn't.

But overall, even if Firefox would be the worst one on the market, I would probably keep using it because it's the only browser whose makers have been looking after my interests as a user, for example being the only major browser that tried opposing DRM or patent encumbered video encoding.

Re: Firefox Quantum Lands in Beta, Developer Edition

#285
post #101
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how much my tabs use, but it isn't 400MB or I'd have ran out of RAM a hundred tabs ago...

I just checked on my work computer and you are right, only a few hovering around 300 or so. They may have made improvements or it may be a macOS thing

I am averaging around 150 MB per tab here.

Re: Firefox Quantum Lands in Beta, Developer Edition

#286
post #129
post #49

Lots of comments from people suffering issues and missing their favorite plugins, so I thought I'd jump in as a former Chrome user. Firefox quantum is really very good. This is the first time in a long time that I've been able to entertain switching browsers. It is at least on par with the speed of chrome, and since I'm moving from chrome, I'm not really missing any Firefox plugins too much. I've been able to port my…

I think I'm not the only who wished Tree Style Tabs was integrated as a default feature of Firefox. It's a primordial configuration to your browsing experience but it's been constantly stabbed and fixed at every update of Firefox.

Seems like Tree Style Tabs got ported to the WebExtensions version now! It still can't hide the tab bar (API will come in later releases) but it works!

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta...

There's also the Tree Tabs extension which I don't like as much.

Re: Firefox Quantum Lands in Beta, Developer Edition

#287

As someone that jumped ship from how slow Chrome has gotten and went to Nightly /w Stylo and (CPU threads - 1) e10s processes enabled about 2 monthsish ago... Holy damn Firefox is actually fast. Fair comparison, both having Pocket, uBlock, Evernote, OneNote, Pushbullet, and Bitwarden; neither of them having an extension the other doesn't. Above described Firefox Nightly config vs Chrome Dev. Test machines are a works…

I've found that google maps performs worse in firefox and I get random %100 cpu spikes from websites in firefox that I didn't get in chrome. I'm on a mac using firefox 55.

Re: Firefox Quantum Lands in Beta, Developer Edition

#288
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just as I don't install every package available in OS just in case I'll need later it. But your OS does come with lots of packages and features you may not use.

> But your OS does come with lots of packages and features you may not use. Sure does. And I can remove them if I want to. I can apt-get remove libc6 if I really really want to and I accept the consequences. I can't remove non-essential parts of the Firefox, though.

Technically speaking, you (still) can.

Delete /usr/lib/firefox/browser/features/firefox@getpocket.com.xpi (or - better - rebuild the .deb package to not include this file) and the Pocket will be gone. Same for screenshots@mozilla.org.xpi.

Sync and DevTools are tightly integrated, though. I'd really really wish it would be realistically possible to remove Sync and replace it with something else.

Re: Firefox Quantum Lands in Beta, Developer Edition

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used Firefox Focus on my Pixel for a few weeks and was blown away by how fast it was. The mobile web went from borderline unusable to borderline pleasant with it, I imagine largely due to its tracking and limited ad blocking. Sadly, I migrated back to Chrome because anything that needs to work with Google login or opening an app simply doesn't work. This causes issues with a lot of things I use. I feel like I'm bei…

I was blown away by Firefox Focus as well. I ended up making it the default browser, so its used when I read an article on HackerNews, Reddit, Twitter, etc. But when I need the "logged in" experience - autofill passwords, bookmarks, cookies, etc. - I launch Chrome. Best of both worlds!

I'm the same but my "logged in" mode browser is Brave. It's chrome + privacy

Re: Firefox Quantum Lands in Beta, Developer Edition

#290

I like the fact that Mozilla is honest with the comparison test video and actually shows Chrome being faster than Firefox on a few sites (e.g., Instagram and YouTube).

Interesting. I wonder if the Instagram slowness is due to Stylo, we have had troubles on Instagram (specifically wrt data URI parsing) before, but IIRC we fixed most of that.

Of course these troubles were when IG was unreasonably slow, it's quite possible there are further issues to be fixed there that we never noticed because it was "good enough".

Or Chrome's approach is just superior for IG and some other sites. Quite possible.

Still, this sounds like something to investigate.

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