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Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

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Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#141

Post by TimonKnigge »

throwawaykf09 wrote: post #138
sitepodmatt wrote: post #116

Bing is still poor for obscure searches, e.g. today Im searching for other poor folks dealing with ebay's API and the message "Invalid store category name" in quotes. Bing 0, DuckDuckGo 0, Google plenty. Reality is most of my tech searches are like this and hence I can't give up Google, or I can at cost of either my time or my clients. It be nice to have another search engine with depth of Google but nothing comes cl…

While Bing was poor for tech related searches in the earlier days, I find it's no longer true. Are you sure it’s 0 results on Bing? I get a bunch of relevant-looking results, and they’re all different from what Google gave me (just the first page): https://www.bing.com/search?q=%22Invalid+store+category+name... Some weird personalization thing? Interested in seeing what others see when they click that link...

I get no results following your link.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#142

Post by AndrewDucker »

jhasse wrote: post #119
throwaway47861 wrote: post #113

WARNING: Meta comment. Downvote to your heart's content. I am very disappointed and disheartened by a good chunk of the HN commenters right here in this thread. I would expect Apple hating in some Android-focused outlet where people get points and badges based on how much times they repeat "iSheep" in an hour, but here?! Boys and girls around here, HN is the modern place where the more intelligent and supposedly open…

What's wrong about "Everybody looks privacy-oriented when compared to Google..."?

It's so incredibly non-specific that it's impossible to argue with.

If you want to make a point about Google and privacy then make a specific one that people can debate.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#143

Post by thomasahle »

benjaminjackman wrote: post #139
sitepodmatt wrote: post #116

Bing is still poor for obscure searches, e.g. today Im searching for other poor folks dealing with ebay's API and the message "Invalid store category name" in quotes. Bing 0, DuckDuckGo 0, Google plenty. Reality is most of my tech searches are like this and hence I can't give up Google, or I can at cost of either my time or my clients. It be nice to have another search engine with depth of Google but nothing comes cl…

When I tried I got 2 results on Google, with about 7 if I selected the option to show duplicate results. Is that what you saw? The results were all on eBay's developer forums, maybe their robots file only allows google? One advantage to DuckDuckGo is that when searching it was fairly easy to flip and try google with !g and bing with !b after getting no results on DDG.* It would be nice if bing/google got that feature…

> maybe their robots file only allows google?

It's pretty easy to check: https://forums.developer.ebay.com/robots.txt

    Sitemap: /sitemap.xml
    
    User-Agent: sitebot
    Disallow: /
 
    User-Agent: *
    Disallow: /accounts/
    Disallow: /users/
    Disallow: /revisions/
    Disallow: /search
    Disallow: /*sort=newest
    Disallow: /*sort=hottest
    Disallow: /*sort=votes
    Disallow: /commands/
    Disallow: /badges/
    Disallow: /comments
    Disallow: /storage/
Doesn't seem like anything disallows https://forums.developer.ebay.com/questions/20235/listing-it...

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#144

Post by jrcii »

throwaway47861 wrote: post #113

WARNING: Meta comment. Downvote to your heart's content. I am very disappointed and disheartened by a good chunk of the HN commenters right here in this thread. I would expect Apple hating in some Android-focused outlet where people get points and badges based on how much times they repeat "iSheep" in an hour, but here?! Boys and girls around here, HN is the modern place where the more intelligent and supposedly open…

If HN wasn't a "filter bubble" my account wouldn't be shadowbanned. I disagreed with the mod's San Francisco liberal politics so I was silenced. You have misunderstood what is going on here.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#145

Post by thomasahle »

throwawaykf09 wrote: post #138
sitepodmatt wrote: post #116

Bing is still poor for obscure searches, e.g. today Im searching for other poor folks dealing with ebay's API and the message "Invalid store category name" in quotes. Bing 0, DuckDuckGo 0, Google plenty. Reality is most of my tech searches are like this and hence I can't give up Google, or I can at cost of either my time or my clients. It be nice to have another search engine with depth of Google but nothing comes cl…

While Bing was poor for tech related searches in the earlier days, I find it's no longer true. Are you sure it’s 0 results on Bing? I get a bunch of relevant-looking results, and they’re all different from what Google gave me (just the first page): https://www.bing.com/search?q=%22Invalid+store+category+name... Some weird personalization thing? Interested in seeing what others see when they click that link...

Maybe Bing is still doing this: http://searchengineland.com/google-bing-is-cheating-copying-... In that case, the hacker news interest would probably get the page included in Bing, but it would take some time before everyone would start seeing it.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#146

Post by dpcx »

chrisper wrote: post #93
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main aftermarket satnav products are from Garmin and TomTom - and in-car systems tend to either license their tech or use NavTeq/HERE. Even Apple Maps bootstrapped off TomTom and still largely just aggregates from other sources. I use iOS, but I very much prefer using Google Maps to Apple Maps: mainly for the Google Account integration, and it feels like they provide more information (shop/restaurant hours, stree…

HERE has their own app, too. It is not bad, but sadly not quite Google Maps level. https://wego.here.com https://here.com/en/products-services/consumer-app/here-wego... Btw. HERE is owned by Audi and some other car companies.

It also has an offline feature that most other mobile map services would kill for.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#147

Post by jhasse »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #142
jhasse wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong about "Everybody looks privacy-oriented when compared to Google..."?

It's so incredibly non-specific that it's impossible to argue with. If you want to make a point about Google and privacy then make a specific one that people can debate.

It's not about Google, but about Apple being privacy-oriented. The argument is that people wouldn't call Apple privacy-oriented if it weren't for its competitors like Google being even worse in that regard.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#148

Post by matwood »

Gaelan wrote: post #33
craftyguy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a) Apple cares about their users' privacy Well, except for the whole switching-to-google thing..

FTA: > As is expected with Apple now, searches and results are all encrypted and anonymized and cannot be attributed to any individual user. Once you click on the ‘Show Google results’ link, of course, you’re off to Google and its standard tracking will apply. Clicking directly on a website result will take you straight there, not through Google. Not perfect, but better than just opening Google directly.

Which is interesting, because one of the reasons I think Google is so good at search is that it personalizes results. When that personalization is removed will it still be as good?

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#149

Post by jhasse »

millstone wrote: post #26
beaner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't care about it's users' privacy. It only ever started making a big deal about privacy when people started criticizing Google for hoarding too much personal info and using it to target ads, which people think is evil. Apple doesn't do these things (it's not Apple's business model), so they began heavily marketing "privacy" as something you'd get from them and not the competition. They make sort of okay at…

Disagree strongly. Apple pays a serious price for their privacy stance, which they would rather not pay. Doing machine learning on-device makes it less effective. Apple's directions aren't as good as they could be because Maps randomly segments trips and masks its users identity. Apple's App Store revenues are lower because they limit how apps can identify users. This difference is deeper than business models. Compar…

> Doing machine learning on-device makes it less effective.

Doing it on-device has other advantages besides privacy (e.g. it works without an Internet connection).

> Apple's directions aren't as good as they could be because Maps randomly segments trips and masks its users identity.

Could you explain that? I didn't really understand what you mean by segmenting the trips and why that should masks the user identity.

> Apple's App Store revenues are lower because they limit how apps can identify users.

You're comparing them to Google here. One could ask why apps can identify their users at all?

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#150

Post by jhasse »

lostlogin wrote: post #64
dxhdr wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple's App Store revenues are lower because they limit how apps can identify users. I think this is less about privacy and more about control. Only Apple apps are allowed to track Apple users.

But Apple chooses to implement things in ways that make it way harder for them to do this. Eg Touch ID and facial recognition on the device only, not in the cloud.

Fingerprints and data for face unlock aren't stored in the cloud on Android either. Wouldn't make any sense anyway since I surely want to unlock my phone without Internet access.
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