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Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

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Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Apple do not give a damn about privacy outside of marketing and alignment with self interest. (see fappening for one high profile example). It will probably not happen as it seems to me ddg is not for sale.

What does "the fappening" have to do with privacy? Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't it just people's weak passwords being guessed and then their iCloud backups being "leaked"?

Pictures automatically being uploaded to icloud is the issue here. Apple will not and maybe cannot snoop in the iphone itself (only for the recent models) but it can, will and has been getting into icloud to give to third parties.

This is mandatory by law for every company operating in the US.

Had this privacy weakness not been in place, it would have been much more difficult to get the pictures. Probably would not have happened as it would have required getting close enough to the devices themselves.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#82
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also made a political stand on the search warrant for that one iPhone that they could have unlocked. A stand that wasn't even popular among the general public ("companies should help police investigate terrorists" polls very well). Being super pedantic, Apple doesn't care about anything, just like a company can't care... but I think it's safe to say that it's not last on the list of things they prioritize.

That was a great 'free' PR boost for them actually, which less informed people take as Apple's great stand on privacy. Apple helped FBI in every possible way for months in their investigation (had also unlocked dozens of phones for them before), even gladly gave away the suspect's iCloud data (so much for customer privacy). It's only when FBI made their next request (to create a backdoor/loophole in brute-force unloc…

But in the article you link to as [0] it also says Apple had already refused to comply with an All Writs Act request in an unrelated case several months previously. It doesn’t seem that the under seal request would have made any difference to their actual decision, which they’d already made. This pretty much kills dead any suggestion that they somehow changed their mind for PR reasons, in fact they pretty clearly didn’t want to publicise it hence the seal request.

Also the PR boost from this is far from free. Aside from the huge cost of engineering all this security into the system, to the point of delaying major new features by years in order to get the security architecture into place, its also costing them a chunk of the Chinese market. The Chinese government is absolutely not happy with this sort of consumer privacy stance and has been cracking down on security services and features on the iOS platform. They’ve banned VPN software and features, banned communications apps, even screwing with Apple by barring the iTunes media business, and stalling Apple Pay.

Going up against the US government arguably does Apple no harm, but setting themselves directly at odds with core Chinese government political goals such as pervasive monitoring and censorship of all forms of communications is going to be a real battle.

If they just wanted a marketing advantage, they’d just build in some anti add-tracking features and be done. Security and privacy is so appallingly bad on Android even a perfunctory effort there would put them miles ahead at little cost. The extreme lengths they’re going to goes way beyond anything remotely necessary for a marketing advantage.

Finally, Apples stance on accessibility shows just how serious they are about serving their users. The cost of their accessibility efforts must be dramatically higher than any possible financial or marketing benefit and they’ve been doing it for decades across platforms to little or no fanfare.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#83
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They had basically nothing at stake. Except the human cost and resulting PR nightmare if a terrorist attack happened that they could have in principle prevented (e.g. if the terrorist had collaborators, and information on the phone helped find them). > I don't think this was a particularly difficult thing to do. Very easy to say when you're not the one responsible for that $800bn company ... if you're a decent huma…

Sorry if I bust your little bubble of joy here but: Apple is not made of decent human beings and do not care for employees that much. Just look at how their devices are manufactured. Apple cares about profits and money, just look at their tax evasion schemes and how they store their cash overseas waiting for a tax break to bring it back to the US.

> Apple is not made of decent human beings

This just isn’t true. Most people are decent human beings. Employees of Apple are no different. Don’t box them in as “the other.” They’re just people.

> Just look at how their devices are manufactured.

This is a valid criticism. Also an industry wide problem. Apple is very transparent with problems in their supply chain, even when it reflects badly on them. This is a problem we have to confront, but it’s far larger than Apple alone.

> tax evasion

There’s a difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. It’s not good practice for a company to pay more tax than they need to. The appropriate remedy to this is legislation.

> Sorry if I bust your little bubble of joy

You didn’t, so it’s okay :)

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#84
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Apple does "fine grained controls"

For the specific context of privacy, they have had more fine-grained controls than Android since the inception of the appstore, until release of Android 6.0 where Android AFAIK has caught up.

Almost, but still not. There’s still no way to revoke android.permission.INTERNET

And if you revoke any permission to any Google apps, all of them will refuse to do shit, and you can’t even place calls without giving Google access to your location, body sensors, bluetooth, etc.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#85

Why doesn't Apple open their checkbook and start their own search engine. I mean, really open it. It's not like they don't have the money and it's not like this is a logical step. They can't start small, meaning the need users to train the SE? What else can it be. Of course they can't put live a horrible version...

Probably because it costs a serious amount of money to make, requires a very expensive infrastructure with high maintenance cost and does not bring in any serious money.

Also they probably lack the skill to do this.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#86
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been preferring Maps to Google's utterly user-hostile experience for quite a while now. It's odd - Google does have a great mapping product: it's called Waze. That's great on a phone! But Google Maps? Christ... it's so bad. All of their iPhone apps are downright user-hostile but Maps is the worst.

> Google does have a great mapping product: it's called Waze. Waze is an independent company.

Nope (http://investvine.com/google-buys-map-software-provider-waze...)

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#87
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They had basically nothing at stake. Except the human cost and resulting PR nightmare if a terrorist attack happened that they could have in principle prevented (e.g. if the terrorist had collaborators, and information on the phone helped find them). > I don't think this was a particularly difficult thing to do. Very easy to say when you're not the one responsible for that $800bn company ... if you're a decent huma…

Sorry if I bust your little bubble of joy here but: Apple is not made of decent human beings and do not care for employees that much. Just look at how their devices are manufactured. Apple cares about profits and money, just look at their tax evasion schemes and how they store their cash overseas waiting for a tax break to bring it back to the US.

Here comes the nirvana fallacy

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#88
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen their attempts with Maps. I can't imagine how the search would go. They already have so much bad press with Maps, I'm sure they don't want more added to it.

Is this because Apple is so bad, or just that Google is so much better than everyone else? I’ve never used physical satnav units, but how do they compare to Apples offerings?

It varies by location a lot, but here in central Europe, Garmin units (including builtin satnav) tend to be more accurate and carry more car-relevant information (speed limits, etc.) than Apple Maps.

Same goes for Google Maps as well, which still don't have speed limits available which is kind of critical when driving through unfamiliar streets.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#89
post #59
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen their attempts with Maps. I can't imagine how the search would go. They already have so much bad press with Maps, I'm sure they don't want more added to it.

Have you used Apple Maps recently? It's not that bad anymore. Just because they had bad press about it 5 years ago doesn't mean the product is still stuck in 2012.

"Not that bad" doesn't really stand up to Google Maps, which is excellent.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#90
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't care about it's users' privacy. It only ever started making a big deal about privacy when people started criticizing Google for hoarding too much personal info and using it to target ads, which people think is evil. Apple doesn't do these things (it's not Apple's business model), so they began heavily marketing "privacy" as something you'd get from them and not the competition. They make sort of okay at…

Disagree strongly. Apple pays a serious price for their privacy stance, which they would rather not pay. Doing machine learning on-device makes it less effective. Apple's directions aren't as good as they could be because Maps randomly segments trips and masks its users identity. Apple's App Store revenues are lower because they limit how apps can identify users. This difference is deeper than business models. Compar…

Apple Genius just asked me for my username and password to my MacBook so he could type it into some service form for repairs. I don't think asking for that info is really compatible with "we care about privacy"
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