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Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

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Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#61

Post by 0xbear »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #55
0xbear wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Yahoo, in turn, gets its results from Bing.

Exactly, there are two commonly used english indexes, Bing and Google. Yandex has one but they closed their local data center so it has a lot of lag getting to it from the US. Tsignal [1] claims to be building their own index, which if they are would mean there was a third index to choose from. [1] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/31/deepsearch_tsignal/

People seem surprised, but it's perfectly predictable. To maintain an index of sufficient quality and size costs billions of dollars a year. Heck, engineering cost alone is probably $500M for MS, and more for Google. DGG doesn't even come close to having the table stakes to play this game.

Another area where table stakes are incredibly high is geo (maps).

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#62

Post by abritinthebay »

xRahul wrote: post #39
tryingagainbro wrote: post #37

Why doesn't Apple open their checkbook and start their own search engine. I mean, really open it. It's not like they don't have the money and it's not like this is a logical step. They can't start small, meaning the need users to train the SE? What else can it be. Of course they can't put live a horrible version...

Have you seen their attempts with Maps. I can't imagine how the search would go. They already have so much bad press with Maps, I'm sure they don't want more added to it.

I've been preferring Maps to Google's utterly user-hostile experience for quite a while now.

It's odd - Google does have a great mapping product: it's called Waze. That's great on a phone! But Google Maps? Christ... it's so bad. All of their iPhone apps are downright user-hostile but Maps is the worst.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#63

Post by tryingagainbro »

toephu2 wrote: post #59
xRahul wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen their attempts with Maps. I can't imagine how the search would go. They already have so much bad press with Maps, I'm sure they don't want more added to it.

Have you used Apple Maps recently? It's not that bad anymore. Just because they had bad press about it 5 years ago doesn't mean the product is still stuck in 2012.

Great point. Yeah they got bad press, but are no longer hostage to Google Maps and have an acceptable maps product that gets improved as time goes by. If Tim Cook decides that $10billion in acquisition /hiring is needed for seearch, I'm sure he'll have it in a few hours from the board.

Apple might release the search engine to just a xx% at a time and rotate to see /get data to tweak it (if it's feasible) or make Apple Search default but give option to switch for a few years.

Search is like maps, a core product.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#64

Post by lostlogin »

dxhdr wrote: post #60
millstone wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree strongly. Apple pays a serious price for their privacy stance, which they would rather not pay. Doing machine learning on-device makes it less effective. Apple's directions aren't as good as they could be because Maps randomly segments trips and masks its users identity. Apple's App Store revenues are lower because they limit how apps can identify users. This difference is deeper than business models. Compar…

> Apple's App Store revenues are lower because they limit how apps can identify users. I think this is less about privacy and more about control. Only Apple apps are allowed to track Apple users.

But Apple chooses to implement things in ways that make it way harder for them to do this. Eg Touch ID and facial recognition on the device only, not in the cloud.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#65

Post by bigbugbag »

lemoncucumber wrote: post #4
jakebasile wrote: post #2

I really wish they'd let me set Siri to search DuckDuckGo.

I could almost see Apple buying DuckDuckGo, given that a) Apple cares about their users' privacy, and b) Apple cares about having control over the entire user experience. DuckDuckGo would fit right in with both of those core pieces of Apple (no pun intended). I don't think it'll actually happen, but it doesn't seem too far-fetched.

I think Apple do not give a damn about privacy outside of marketing and alignment with self interest. (see fappening for one high profile example).

It will probably not happen as it seems to me ddg is not for sale.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#66

Post by bigbugbag »

millstone wrote: post #26
beaner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't care about it's users' privacy. It only ever started making a big deal about privacy when people started criticizing Google for hoarding too much personal info and using it to target ads, which people think is evil. Apple doesn't do these things (it's not Apple's business model), so they began heavily marketing "privacy" as something you'd get from them and not the competition. They make sort of okay at…

Disagree strongly. Apple pays a serious price for their privacy stance, which they would rather not pay. Doing machine learning on-device makes it less effective. Apple's directions aren't as good as they could be because Maps randomly segments trips and masks its users identity. Apple's App Store revenues are lower because they limit how apps can identify users. This difference is deeper than business models. Compar…

When you compare anything to google, it will look as if caring for privacy.

Google is the hugest ad network based on gobbling all privacy from everywhere while Apple is an overpriced hardware seller, of course it will do better on privacy than google. But this does not make apple a privacy oriented company.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#67

Post by nextlevelwizard »

bigbugbag wrote: post #65
lemoncucumber wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could almost see Apple buying DuckDuckGo, given that a) Apple cares about their users' privacy, and b) Apple cares about having control over the entire user experience. DuckDuckGo would fit right in with both of those core pieces of Apple (no pun intended). I don't think it'll actually happen, but it doesn't seem too far-fetched.

I think Apple do not give a damn about privacy outside of marketing and alignment with self interest. (see fappening for one high profile example). It will probably not happen as it seems to me ddg is not for sale.

What does "the fappening" have to do with privacy? Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't it just people's weak passwords being guessed and then their iCloud backups being "leaked"?

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#68

Post by bigbugbag »

rtpg wrote: post #18
beaner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't care about it's users' privacy. It only ever started making a big deal about privacy when people started criticizing Google for hoarding too much personal info and using it to target ads, which people think is evil. Apple doesn't do these things (it's not Apple's business model), so they began heavily marketing "privacy" as something you'd get from them and not the competition. They make sort of okay at…

They also made a political stand on the search warrant for that one iPhone that they could have unlocked. A stand that wasn't even popular among the general public ("companies should help police investigate terrorists" polls very well). Being super pedantic, Apple doesn't care about anything, just like a company can't care... but I think it's safe to say that it's not last on the list of things they prioritize.

Was is a political stand for user privacy or was it a show of power "government cannot force us to do anything" stand ?

They were probably just defending their business model, as a hardware seller the minute it is known worldwide that the US government has a backdoor in their flagship device, apple is over.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#69

Post by amelius »

xRahul wrote: post #39
tryingagainbro wrote: post #37

Why doesn't Apple open their checkbook and start their own search engine. I mean, really open it. It's not like they don't have the money and it's not like this is a logical step. They can't start small, meaning the need users to train the SE? What else can it be. Of course they can't put live a horrible version...

Have you seen their attempts with Maps. I can't imagine how the search would go. They already have so much bad press with Maps, I'm sure they don't want more added to it.

They don't have to brand it "Apple" initially.

Re: Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on iOS and Mac Spotlight

#70

Post by bigbugbag »

Osmium wrote: post #51
beaner wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this was a particularly difficult thing to do. they're an almost $800 billion company with one of the most valuable brands in the world and the most loyal followers. They have more of an ability to stand up to these things than anyone. And if they lost, it's not like anything particularly bad was going to happen to them. They'd just have to cede the info. And it was the right thing to do anyway. They ha…

> They had basically nothing at stake. Except the human cost and resulting PR nightmare if a terrorist attack happened that they could have in principle prevented (e.g. if the terrorist had collaborators, and information on the phone helped find them). > I don't think this was a particularly difficult thing to do. Very easy to say when you're not the one responsible for that $800bn company ... if you're a decent huma…

Sorry if I bust your little bubble of joy here but:

Apple is not made of decent human beings and do not care for employees that much. Just look at how their devices are manufactured.

Apple cares about profits and money, just look at their tax evasion schemes and how they store their cash overseas waiting for a tax break to bring it back to the US.

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