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China Blocks WhatsApp

nytimes.com

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Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#251

Post by mahyarm »

rwallace wrote: post #217
majormajor wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially as China avoids the mistake of closing itself off to the rest of the world, but stays integrated in the markets, as well as the academic exchanges. So if the strategy is have-our-cake-and-eat-it-too why does the rest of the world play along? Corporate greed outside the control of governmental entities? Like the parent and unlike the grandparent, I'm not convinced "openness" of the sort that fosters innov…

> So if the strategy is have-our-cake-and-eat-it-too why does the rest of the world play along? As opposed to what? Economic sanctions have a wonderfully consistent track record of making things worse for everyone. China is too powerful for 'destroy the country and slaughter its people in a fit of pique' to work the way it did in Libya and Syria, which is just as well because that also makes things worse for everyone…

Unique tit-for-tat regulations of Chinese companies of what is shown in practice?

"Our companies don't have freedoms X,Y,Z vs Chinese corps in china, so Chinese corps and investors will get the same special treatment in our country too".

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#252

Post by westiseast »

Certhas wrote: post #117
chaostheory wrote: post #40

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

Alternative: Innovation happens within the context of Chinas censorship and political regime. Blocking of entrenched western competitors allows home grown solutions to spring up, and local technological know how to develop faster. Capitalism and innovation turn out to work within the context of an illiberal society just fine. Especially as China avoids the mistake of closing itself off to the rest of the world, but s…

I'm a China hawk, but this is what has been happening and what will continue happening unless something massively more drastic than blocking a single minority foreign app happens.

I think there's a tendency for people to overestimate the importance of foreign apps to Chinese consumers and to underestimate the Chinese market. It's almost laughable that people think blocking WhatsApp will make any difference to Chinese people.

eg., the Chinese tech/online market is so huge it can sustain multiple competitors of its own in each sector - ride-hailing, search, shopping, food delivery, maps, chat, mobile payments all have massive players providing their own competition and innovation.

Genuine ground-breaking technological innovation is rare. When it happens, it's not like China won't get it (eg. touchscreens) because it blocked Google. In a lot of ways, because Chinese consumers are so quick to adopt new technology, there's sometimes more low-level innovation/adaptation because companies can rely on new apps/tools getting traction quickly.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#253

Post by [deleted] »

bad_user wrote: post #179
tanilama wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is WeChat, and it is far more successful than WhatsApp.

With WhatsApp having over 1 Billion daily active users [1], I find that really hard to believe, but assuming that all of China's population is on WeChat ... My point is that WeChat does not exist for me and probably never will. [1] https://blog.whatsapp.com/10000631/Connecting-One-Billion-Us...

[deleted]

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#254

Post by nihonde »

nradov wrote: post #209
dv_dt wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the effect was the complete opposite with Japanese car companies, which ended up being in massive competition with the US industry. (with ups and downs on both sides)

After the initial round of product launches, most Japanese car companies started designing unique products for the US market. Many of the most popular "Japanese" cars in the US were designed and assembled in the US, and aren't even available for purchase in Japan. There are a few exceptions like the Prius, but overall the "Galapagos Island effect" is a good metaphor. It's a very isolated and unique market.

The same is true in the other direction: Japanese domestic auto sales heavily favor models that you can’t buy in the US. Toyota has Crown dealerships that boast about selling JDM-only models.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#255

Post by Jerry2 »

HillaryBriss wrote: post #162
ben_jones wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 5 points according to the video: 1) Married Priscilla Chan 2) Learned Mandarin 3) Joined Tsinghua University 4) Befriended Xijinping 5) Offered to let Xijinping name firstborn Personally I have trouble believing 1 and 5 were to get Facebook products into China unabridged. 5 sounds like a joke at a dinner party.

if 5 were true (though i doubt it) it would make for a pretty sad conversation between Mr. Zuckerberg and their firstborn some day. i mean, c'mon. have some class. it's a move worthy of our current president.

>if 5 were true

Sadly, it's true:

>At a White House dinner in 2015, Mr. Zuckerberg had even asked the Chinese president, Xi Jinping, whether Mr. Xi might offer a Chinese name for his soon-to-be-born first child — usually a privilege reserved for older relatives, or sometimes a fortune teller. Mr. Xi declined, according to a person briefed on the matter.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/technology/facebook-gover...

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#256

Post by afpx »

chaostheory wrote: post #40

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

Are there historical examples of states imposing social control while also succeeding technologically? I can only think of the counter examples.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#257

Post by mhh__ »

mtgx wrote: post #39
hellofunk wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, what is the difference between "Facebook was already blocked" and "Don't even think about Facebook", other than 5 years?

VPNs probably. They've started to crack down on those lately, too. Also, a random tweet I saw today apparently with a recording of China's CCTV surveillance system: https://twitter.com/0XDEDBEEF/status/912026226658652160 No wonder China wants to be #1 in "artificial intelligence". Surveillance and censorship are likely the primary motivators for that.

I can't read chinese: What kind of data do they have there?

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#258

Post by andrioni »

Saad_M wrote: post #175
Certhas wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternative: Innovation happens within the context of Chinas censorship and political regime. Blocking of entrenched western competitors allows home grown solutions to spring up, and local technological know how to develop faster. Capitalism and innovation turn out to work within the context of an illiberal society just fine. Especially as China avoids the mistake of closing itself off to the rest of the world, but s…

Another alternative is that you may get a Galapagos island effect where Chinese firms do innovate, but their innovation is tied to the cultural and regulatory norms and not very applicable outside of China. The same effect was seen with Japanese cell phone companies pre-smartphone era.

Although China has such a large market (and potential to close the market if need be) that not being able to expand outside of China won't be a problem for a long time.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#259

Post by bluetwo »

Saad_M wrote: post #175
Certhas wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternative: Innovation happens within the context of Chinas censorship and political regime. Blocking of entrenched western competitors allows home grown solutions to spring up, and local technological know how to develop faster. Capitalism and innovation turn out to work within the context of an illiberal society just fine. Especially as China avoids the mistake of closing itself off to the rest of the world, but s…

Another alternative is that you may get a Galapagos island effect where Chinese firms do innovate, but their innovation is tied to the cultural and regulatory norms and not very applicable outside of China. The same effect was seen with Japanese cell phone companies pre-smartphone era.

An argument could be made that this is why their large investments in movies and entertainment has failed outside the homeland.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#260

Post by dv_dt »

nradov wrote: post #209
dv_dt wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the effect was the complete opposite with Japanese car companies, which ended up being in massive competition with the US industry. (with ups and downs on both sides)

After the initial round of product launches, most Japanese car companies started designing unique products for the US market. Many of the most popular "Japanese" cars in the US were designed and assembled in the US, and aren't even available for purchase in Japan. There are a few exceptions like the Prius, but overall the "Galapagos Island effect" is a good metaphor. It's a very isolated and unique market.

It's speculative how much of the Japanese company design/assemble in the US is from trying to serve the market more closely, and how much is from trying to align with current or potential US trade restrictions. I think one might argue that there is a similarity of motivation in the US preserving auto industry capability in-nation with China wanting to develop tech capability in-nation. The motivation is similar, but the implementation is different.

I do agree there could be a "Galapogos Island" effect, I just don't know how to predict which industry will experience it vs the opposite. I wonder if someday the US will be the Galapagos in that relation though with the sheer size of China and it's possibility to trade with near neighbours India and Indonesia.

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