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Why Happy People Cheat

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#121

Post by Nursie »

crsm345 wrote: post #109
Nursie wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> why don't we just get rid of the idea that you 'own' your partner's body? I don't own my partner's body, however I expect emotional exclusivity, and that's also what I want to give. Sex, closeness, trust and emotional bonds are all tied up together. It's not "erotic competition" and to me the use of that phrase just belies a lack of maturity - it's never "just sex" for me, and I wouldn't want to be with someone fo…

Fair points. Perhaps my phrasing was needlessly agressive. I didn't mean to label individual personal choices as 'arcane'. Rather, it's the social/cultural norm that I find suboptimal. (Also, the economic connotations involved are perhaps in bad taste) I'm not sure whether this is correct in English (not my first language) but 'erotic' was meant to include not just sex but other forms of closeness as well. What I don…

>> What I don't understand is why the bond of trust, emotional closeness, and so forth necessarily needs to have exclusivity built-in, so to speak.

Because I want to make that bond something I build my life around, and want to know that the other person is reciprocating. If the other person is having other, similar relationships then I'm not really able to do that. It also implies a sort of time-share basis to the relationship. I'm demanding, I want most of my partner's time, and I want to give her most of mine. I want to face the world by her side and with her at mine.

>> However if I have 'just' sex (with little emotional involvement) it is considered cheating.

Like I said, for a lot of people, there's no such thing as "just sex", and it always involves emotions, even if you didn't think it would beforehand. This is something I learned about myself over the last couple of decades.

As to what people might really prefer, absent any sort of pressure, it is indeed very hard to tell. If you look at society it seems the mainstream is to prefer serial monogamy, with occasional total breakdown. As the pressure to marry (and to do so young, and to stay with someone you might hate) wanes, perhaps we'll see more, different models emerging.

It won't be for me though. And it's always going to be a good idea to have a conversation about who you are and what you want from a relationship very early on.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#122

Post by Nursie »

staticelf wrote: post #84
Nursie wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha! I was half expecting you to come back "Of course not, the very idea !!!?!" Seriously, if that seems like something you're interested in, there are a lot of people out there who agree with you, of both/all genders, many who are bisexual as well. Look up some local poly meetups, there are lots around (though you may have more luck finding them in major cities). Best of luck.

Haha, I have looked up some but most people who are into this seem a lot older than me and kind of ugly for most of the time. I understand this may of course differ completely from people to people. I don't really want any kind of relationship right now though, since I am focusing on work and myself. But I will probably do this later, thanks.

Ssssshhhh, we celebrate diversity these days, nobody is supposed to point out that the poly crowd are usually a little ... odd.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#123

Post by emodendroket »

virgil_disgr4ce wrote: post #119
emodendroket wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if you think so you have to admit it is dishonest to promise otherwise.

Yes, that is the problem—people not admitting it to themselves or their partners—and (I believe) it is the standard narrative of monosexuality that forces people to not make that admission.

Well I don't see anything so unnatural about a practice that has arisen in most human societies throughout history, so on a more basic level I'm unsympathetic to the argument. But it seems especially hard to justify using that defense after already committing to something else.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#124

Post by emodendroket »

zzalpha wrote: post #118
emodendroket wrote: post #73

> there is always a suspicion … that one is living a lie or a mistake; that something crucially important has been overlooked, missed, neglected, left untried and unexplored; that a vital obligation to one’s own authentic self has not been met, or that some chances of unknown happiness completely different from any happiness experienced before have not been taken up in time and are bound to be lost forever. In my opi…

I tend to agree, but I think it's pretty deeply rooted, and it's not a new thing by any stretch. I reject the idea that this is somehow a particularly modern dysfunction. As children and young adults people are taught to "pursue their dreams" and "find their passion" and many other aspirational platitudes. Then, adult life comes along and most of us become decidedly average because, well, that's statistics for you. B…

Hm, well, I think it is fair to say the cult of the individual has a pedigree a few centuries long, but it seems to me like the collapse of groups and institutions (everything from religion to social activities like bowling leagues, really) and generally more atomized relationships have removed the fetters preventing it from reaching its most extreme expression. I guess this claim risks veering into "things were better in the good old days" which isn't really what I mean.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#125

Post by zzalpha »

emodendroket wrote: post #124
zzalpha wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree, but I think it's pretty deeply rooted, and it's not a new thing by any stretch. I reject the idea that this is somehow a particularly modern dysfunction. As children and young adults people are taught to "pursue their dreams" and "find their passion" and many other aspirational platitudes. Then, adult life comes along and most of us become decidedly average because, well, that's statistics for you. B…

Hm, well, I think it is fair to say the cult of the individual has a pedigree a few centuries long, but it seems to me like the collapse of groups and institutions (everything from religion to social activities like bowling leagues, really) and generally more atomized relationships have removed the fetters preventing it from reaching its most extreme expression. I guess this claim risks veering into "things were bett…

Yeah, I dunno about that.

Groups and institutions are great for creating additional social pressures that discourage people from violating morays. But unless you couple that with a fundamentally different set of values, I don't see how they are a solution. If anything, they create additional strictures that encourage the kind of rule-breaking behaviour the article talks about.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#126

Post by emodendroket »

zzalpha wrote: post #125
emodendroket wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, well, I think it is fair to say the cult of the individual has a pedigree a few centuries long, but it seems to me like the collapse of groups and institutions (everything from religion to social activities like bowling leagues, really) and generally more atomized relationships have removed the fetters preventing it from reaching its most extreme expression. I guess this claim risks veering into "things were bett…

Yeah, I dunno about that. Groups and institutions are great for creating additional social pressures that discourage people from violating morays. But unless you couple that with a fundamentally different set of values, I don't see how they are a solution. If anything, they create additional strictures that encourage the kind of rule-breaking behaviour the article talks about.

What I'd say is that such institutions help temper the view that the self and short-term utility for the self are the ultimate good.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#127

Post by nkrisc »

virgil_disgr4ce wrote: post #106
nkrisc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a waste of breath to promote or condemn one mode of relationship over another. All that matters is what you and your partner(s) agree on for the terms of your relationship.

Of course. But the problem is the expectation at large in the macroculture (I'm speaking largely of American macroculture, where I live) of monosexuality by participants of all sexes. In other words, it's a sociocultural problem. Are there people who have figured out how to escape it? Yes, but still a minute fraction. Furthermore, the judgement those people (myself included) face by family and sometimes friends is an…

Agreed about the real problem being societal. My point was that claiming that humans are "meant" to be monogamous or polygamous or whatever is an empty debate when we have free will and can decide for ourselves what sort of relationship we want.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#128

Post by [deleted] »

jaimex2 wrote: post #40

It's simple. Some people value an exciting encounter over their current relationship, people can have an addiction to the rush or have felt numb for too long. Over simplifying - there's nothing wrong with their current phone but some people will rush and buy the latest to get the buzz of a new gadget. They weigh the chance of getting caught and damage it will cause as lower than the excitement and fulfilment of a new…

[deleted]

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#129

Post by zzalpha »

emodendroket wrote: post #126
zzalpha wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I dunno about that. Groups and institutions are great for creating additional social pressures that discourage people from violating morays. But unless you couple that with a fundamentally different set of values, I don't see how they are a solution. If anything, they create additional strictures that encourage the kind of rule-breaking behaviour the article talks about.

What I'd say is that such institutions help temper the view that the self and short-term utility for the self are the ultimate good.

Again, that presupposes a different set of values.

Consider common American Evangelical beliefs that focus on praying for specific material or personal gain (such as good health). This is nothing more than religion blended with "the cult of the individual". As such, I have little reason to believe those institutions would create better outcomes.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#130

Post by Balgair »

jaimex2 wrote: post #40

It's simple. Some people value an exciting encounter over their current relationship, people can have an addiction to the rush or have felt numb for too long. Over simplifying - there's nothing wrong with their current phone but some people will rush and buy the latest to get the buzz of a new gadget. They weigh the chance of getting caught and damage it will cause as lower than the excitement and fulfilment of a new…

Yeah, the trick is to recognize you are a person that likes that and then try and have that risk/excitement sustained in your own relationship/s. A tip I've heard for those that need it: Always be dating your spouse. I'll leave it to the reader to google the ways to do that ;)
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