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How Did Marriage Become a Mark of Privilege?

nytimes.com

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Re: How Did Marriage Become a Mark of Privilege?

#21

Post by technofire »

moomin wrote: post #4

"As marriage has declined, though, childbearing has not, which means that more children are living in families without two parents and the resources they bring." Er, no, it doesn't mean that at all. I mean, I 100% support anyone doing the ridiculously hard job of raising a kid all by themselves, but just because Justin Wolfers and Betsey Stevenson aren't married it doesn't mean they aren't committed to each other and…

> just because Justin Wolfers and Betsey Stevenson aren't married it doesn't mean they aren't committed to each other and their children.

From the article:

"The decline in marriage was not offset by more couples living together."

Re: How Did Marriage Become a Mark of Privilege?

#23

Post by CalRobert »

kop316 wrote: post #8

I wonder if this is also due to the high cost of the actual marriage ceremony. A (cheap) engagement ring can cost over $1000, and can easily jump to $5-10K. Then a traditional ceremony can easily be over $10K, with no upper bound on how expensive it is. This was the cause of me no longer being with an ex, they were already in debt $80k from school, but still wanted a ceremony that could have easily cost $40K. I had n…

Perhaps those are the weddings we focus on and we forget all the cheap ones? I've known quite a few people (myself included) who did it for a few hundred quid (turned out Tuesdays were cheaper so we did it then at town hall).

Of course, it's cheaper if no family come. Remember, all those gifts they give you are a social debt for which they will want to collect.

Re: How Did Marriage Become a Mark of Privilege?

#24

Post by njharman »

> “Women don’t want to take a risk on somebody who’s not going to be able to provide anything,”

That's such a fucked up sexist thought. It says woman are in control of marriage, what men want is irrelevant. And that the role of men is provider. Men belong at work and women belong in the kitchen, is that it?

Re: How Did Marriage Become a Mark of Privilege?

#25

Post by tomp »

19guid wrote: post #12
moomin wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to investigate the "high percentage" figure. It's one of those talking points that isn't really grounded in any solid numbers.

Per CDC (2014), the marriage rate in the United States is 6.9/1000 people while the divorce rate is 3.2/1000 people. [1] I'd say that's very high. 1: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/marriage-divorce.htm

That's about 50%, which is the commonly quoted figure. However, IIRC that figure is skewed significantly by second (and further) marriages (i.e. by people who "like" getting divorced). The figures for first marriage are somewhat lower.

Re: How Did Marriage Become a Mark of Privilege?

#27

Post by thriftwy »

mlrtime wrote: post #3

Many men are understanding that marriage is a no win situation. You find yourself working your entire life to support your wife and family only to have a high percentage of ending in divorce. Your assets will be taken from you and you will be lucky if you get 50% custody. If you do not wand children there is no point in getting married.

> Your assets will be taken from you and you will be lucky if you get 50% custody

This is an interesting situation from the point of how economy, politics and people work:

If you protect X, you will get less X.

If you protect women in marriage by giving them more assets and custody on divorce, you make it harder for women to find a spouse. Those who already had one, benefit.

If you protect home renters by putting conditions on potential landlords, you will get better conditions for existing renters but worse conditions for new renters.

You thought you can make world better by placing conditions on other people, but it bites the actual demographics you were thought to protect.

Re: How Did Marriage Become a Mark of Privilege?

#28

Post by RijilV »

mlrtime wrote: post #3

Many men are understanding that marriage is a no win situation. You find yourself working your entire life to support your wife and family only to have a high percentage of ending in divorce. Your assets will be taken from you and you will be lucky if you get 50% custody. If you do not wand children there is no point in getting married.

Strongly disagree on "do not want children there is no point in getting married."

There's an emotional reason to get married, formalizing a life long commitment. That's a big one for a lot of folks (citation: my marriage).

But lets say you're not a feelings type of person, and those arguments fall on deaf ears. If you live in a community property state marriage makes inheriting assets ridiculously easy and avoids all sorts of taxes. (otherwise you're down the road of setting up trusts which will incur lawyer and trust management fees).

Taxes are another one - if there's an income disparity. Filing jointly with a single income does wonders for what you don't have to pay.

Your spouse can also not be compelled to testify against you, which depending on how paranoid you want to be might make you sleep better at night.

To say there's no point is missing the point though - as much as marriage is enshrined in legal rights which are unavailable to those who do not marry, the institution of marriage is centuries old and exists in many religions. There's an emotional reason to do so, and that's point enough.

Re: How Did Marriage Become a Mark of Privilege?

#29

Post by thriftwy »

mfoy_ wrote: post #7

To quote Alec Baldwin's character, Ellerby, from The Departed : "Marriage is an important part of getting ahead; lets people know you're not a homo. Married guy seems more stable. People see the ring, they think 'at least somebody can stand the son of a bitch'. Ladies see the ring, they know immediately you must have some cash or your cock must work." A touch on the homophobic and misogynistic side, but it seems rele…

Once marrying becomes an unfortunate choice, it starts to signal the opposite. "This guy is so desperate he had to marry"
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