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Bitcoin is fiat money, too

economist.com

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Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#31

Post by jraines »

stanleydrew wrote: post #27
jraines wrote: post #19

Nowhere in the article does it really support the title. I guess they're referring mainly to the Ethereum fork? Even if you accept the proposition, it's still an improvement in that if you don't like the governance (feels too "fiat" for you, or whatever), you can instantly convert to any number of other cryptocurrencies, including many that define themselves essentially in opposition to the reasoning behind the Ether…

> you can instantly convert to any number of other cryptocurrencies Assuming someone has built an "instant" method of exchange, and that it is always available, then I guess this is true.

If you mean you don't count existing exchanges, which is fair, there are decentralized exchanges coming very soon (0xproject.com among others) as well as atomic swaps: https://twitter.com/SatoshiLite/status/910534107058233344

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#32

Post by gtrubetskoy »

Incidentally I just wrote up some thoughts today on what Bitcoin is: https://grisha.org/blog/2017/09/22/bitcoin-value/

In some way it is fiat, Satoshi's fiat, but that's not the same as USD. The most puzzling thing is how things like Bitcoin get priced, since it's just a number, but I haven't finished my research on it yet.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#33

Post by lisper »

snitko wrote: post #23
kobeya wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price doesn’t define the success of bitcoin.

Well what does? More people using it and interested in it? Doesn't define success. More merchants accepting it? Doesn't define success. More governments paying attention to it? Doesn't define success. What on earth would define success? It's like nothing is ever enough for you people.

Kinda reminds me of all the people confidently predicting the demise of Google before the "ridiculously overvalued" IPO. There was even an entire web site devoted to it called fuckedgoogle.com. Needless to say, it went out of business waiting for Google to go out of business.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#34

Post by stanleydrew »

jraines wrote: post #31
stanleydrew wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can instantly convert to any number of other cryptocurrencies Assuming someone has built an "instant" method of exchange, and that it is always available, then I guess this is true.

If you mean you don't count existing exchanges, which is fair, there are decentralized exchanges coming very soon (0xproject.com among others) as well as atomic swaps: https://twitter.com/SatoshiLite/status/910534107058233344

Interesting, thanks for the links. I did indeed mean that I don't count existing exchanges, but will need to investigate the decentralized concept.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#35

Post by davidw »

dnautics wrote: post #18

Interestingly the economist misses the traditional definition of Fiat: a currency whose value is determined by the Fiat of a state. Whether or not Bitcoin exhibits similar trends as currency that isn't backed by the state is immaterial to the ethical appeal (to some) of a medium of exchange where participation is voluntary and consensual.

I don't think the point eluded the author, at all. The article pretty clearly talks about financial innovation throughout history and then how it got coopted by states. The author seems pretty familiar with the history of finance and economics, actually.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#36

Post by jraines »

XR0CSWV3h3kZWg wrote: post #29
jraines wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you have no interest in it yet confidently state there's "nothing new on the horizon". Look, I don't know if you're wrong in the large -- maybe it does all come crashing down or die with a whimper -- but you're definitely wrong about that. Innovation is coming quickly, and I don't mean some dumb ICO(s)

What do you mean? I think in terms of new technical details there are lots of cool stuff. Atomic cross chain transfers are starting in earnest, LN is looking more and more real, zcash style tx might land in ETH. In technical terms that's all awesome, but new use cases do those allow? They typically just allow the same use cases, but slightly better and cheaper. Those aren't the things that are holding back new use ca…

Yeah, I'm mainly referring to those you mentioned. But smart contracts in general allow tons of new use cases, which are furthered by those types of ground-level advancements. It will take years to sort out, there will be scams and useless schemes that repeat the mistakes of history as the article claims, but then there will be others.

If predicting that unimaginable benefits will flow from this space, analagous to the early days of the web when people's understandable first ideas were to put newsletters & mail-order catalogs online, makes me sound like a naive blockchain cultist, so be it; but then again, what forum am I on right now?

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#37

Post by diegorbaquero »

snitko wrote: post #23
kobeya wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price doesn’t define the success of bitcoin.

Well what does? More people using it and interested in it? Doesn't define success. More merchants accepting it? Doesn't define success. More governments paying attention to it? Doesn't define success. What on earth would define success? It's like nothing is ever enough for you people.

I would go with volume and active wallets (not addresses) using it.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#38

Post by stormbrew »

jraines wrote: post #31
stanleydrew wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can instantly convert to any number of other cryptocurrencies Assuming someone has built an "instant" method of exchange, and that it is always available, then I guess this is true.

If you mean you don't count existing exchanges, which is fair, there are decentralized exchanges coming very soon (0xproject.com among others) as well as atomic swaps: https://twitter.com/SatoshiLite/status/910534107058233344

I mean, even if good exchanges exist they can never really guarantee instantaneous transfer from one to another because there's really no way to guarantee demand for a cryptocurrency. Hundreds of them have cropped up that you probably couldn't pay someone to take now, and a rush on one of the big ones isn't even inconceivable.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#39

Post by tootie »

zzalpha wrote: post #12
lostmsu wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it doesn't. Except you can use it to transfer value without first consulting your potentially totalitarian government without much effort for the first time in the entire history.

ROFL, "the first time in the entire history". Gold would like to have a word with you... And seashells. And giant stone coins. And on and on and on. In fact, as far as history goes, government backed fiat currency is a very recent invention.

Government-backed fiat currency is also by far the most successful and most useful. People object on abstract principle but it's been nothing short of miraculous for human development.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#40

Post by virmundi »

Finnucane wrote: post #20
dnautics wrote: post #18

Interestingly the economist misses the traditional definition of Fiat: a currency whose value is determined by the Fiat of a state. Whether or not Bitcoin exhibits similar trends as currency that isn't backed by the state is immaterial to the ethical appeal (to some) of a medium of exchange where participation is voluntary and consensual.

Is Bitcoin actually a medium of exchange? It seems to be functioning more as an investment to be hoarded rather than spent.

I wonder if part of this is due to dust. My understanding is that at these prices you don't really want to split a coin for a $.25. As a result it's poor for micro payments and daily macro payments alike.
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