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Bitcoin is fiat money, too

economist.com

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Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#11

Post by kobeya »

oleganza wrote: post #10
api wrote: post #2

I think we're approaching a trough of disillusionment with cryptocurrency. There's been a flurry of critical articles, crackdowns, and widespread disillusionment with crummy ICOs.

Bitcoin never escaped the "trough of disillusionment" since its birth. 2008: Satoshi posts a paper to mailing list, nearly everyone declares the idea non-workable. 2009-2010: Satoshi releases software, no one cares. People throw away wallets with mined coins. 2011: A 8-month decline after the first speculative bubble. 2012: "Nothing" really happens price-/news-wise, only minor bubble from $5 to $15 to $10. 2013-2014:…

The price doesn’t define the success of bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#12

Post by zzalpha »

lostmsu wrote: post #6
imustbeevil wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it's a trough or if it's a conclusion. It's been 8 years now and the use cases for Bitcoin / CC haven't changed. You can buy illegal things and an incredibly small number of real things you can also buy with real money. There is nothing you can do with Bitcoin / CC that you can't do with real money. Nothing you can do that you couldn't do 5 years ago. Nothing new on the horizon. The only reason Bitcoi…

Sure it doesn't. Except you can use it to transfer value without first consulting your potentially totalitarian government without much effort for the first time in the entire history.

ROFL, "the first time in the entire history".

Gold would like to have a word with you... And seashells. And giant stone coins. And on and on and on.

In fact, as far as history goes, government backed fiat currency is a very recent invention.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#13

Post by SolarNet »

blibble wrote: post #7
lostmsu wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it doesn't. Except you can use it to transfer value without first consulting your potentially totalitarian government without much effort for the first time in the entire history.

that's funny, I don't remember consulting my government this morning when I paid for a cup of coffee with cash

You must live in: Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire or Oregon. (Or be oblivious)

States where the sale of a cup of coffee doesn't involve a tax.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#14

Post by jpmattia »

oleganza wrote: post #10
api wrote: post #2

I think we're approaching a trough of disillusionment with cryptocurrency. There's been a flurry of critical articles, crackdowns, and widespread disillusionment with crummy ICOs.

Bitcoin never escaped the "trough of disillusionment" since its birth. 2008: Satoshi posts a paper to mailing list, nearly everyone declares the idea non-workable. 2009-2010: Satoshi releases software, no one cares. People throw away wallets with mined coins. 2011: A 8-month decline after the first speculative bubble. 2012: "Nothing" really happens price-/news-wise, only minor bubble from $5 to $15 to $10. 2013-2014:…

Exactly. I'd be a lot more worried when we hit unbridled enthusiasm, with a raft of strangers telling me "It can't go down. The number is limited!"

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#15

Post by jshaqaw »

SolarNet wrote: post #13
blibble wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's funny, I don't remember consulting my government this morning when I paid for a cup of coffee with cash

You must live in: Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire or Oregon. (Or be oblivious) States where the sale of a cup of coffee doesn't involve a tax.

When you grow up and have kids (ie you aren’t 11 anymore) you may appreciate things like schools, safe roads, etc... that come with those sales tax dollars instead of viewing it as totalitarian expropriation.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#16

Post by blibble »

SolarNet wrote: post #13
blibble wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's funny, I don't remember consulting my government this morning when I paid for a cup of coffee with cash

You must live in: Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire or Oregon. (Or be oblivious) States where the sale of a cup of coffee doesn't involve a tax.

must? there's more to the world than the United States

I live in the UK, there's no sales tax and the sole trader selling coffee at my local railway station is almost certainly below the VAT registration threshold, so there's no tax on the purchase at all

regardless, paying a tax embedded in the price of a good is not the same thing as consulting the government on the purchase

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#17

Post by eugeniub »

SolarNet wrote: post #13
blibble wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's funny, I don't remember consulting my government this morning when I paid for a cup of coffee with cash

You must live in: Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire or Oregon. (Or be oblivious) States where the sale of a cup of coffee doesn't involve a tax.

Weird how whenever I try to buy something with bitcoin on Overstock it still makes me pay sales tax. Bitcoin must be a big government conspiracy.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#18

Post by dnautics »

Interestingly the economist misses the traditional definition of Fiat: a currency whose value is determined by the Fiat of a state. Whether or not Bitcoin exhibits similar trends as currency that isn't backed by the state is immaterial to the ethical appeal (to some) of a medium of exchange where participation is voluntary and consensual.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#19

Post by jraines »

Nowhere in the article does it really support the title. I guess they're referring mainly to the Ethereum fork?

Even if you accept the proposition, it's still an improvement in that if you don't like the governance (feels too "fiat" for you, or whatever), you can instantly convert to any number of other cryptocurrencies, including many that define themselves essentially in opposition to the reasoning behind the Ethereum fork.

The author kind of addresses this:

You could argue that markets are already deciding which new currencies provide sound money. And in doing so you would join the banking school of 19th-century England, or the people who loosened financial regulation in the late 1990s in America.

I don't know about 19th century English banking, but I don't see how anything in the late 90s or what followed constitutes "the market deciding what provides sound money". The Asian currency crisis maybe? But that was caused by bad "fiat" policies, especially pegs, and lack of transparency (SK banks holding assets rendered bad by the crisis in other countries, for example, and speculators exploiting this yet-to-be-widespread knowledge).

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#20

Post by Finnucane »

dnautics wrote: post #18

Interestingly the economist misses the traditional definition of Fiat: a currency whose value is determined by the Fiat of a state. Whether or not Bitcoin exhibits similar trends as currency that isn't backed by the state is immaterial to the ethical appeal (to some) of a medium of exchange where participation is voluntary and consensual.

Is Bitcoin actually a medium of exchange? It seems to be functioning more as an investment to be hoarded rather than spent.
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