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EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

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Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#41

Post by squeaky-clean »

bkeroack wrote: post #31
jacquesm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, tbh it wasn't all that appealing even without these ridiculous rules. I used to travel there several times per year, haven't been back in over a decade now. There is a lot more than just these searches from the point of view of an international business traveler or tourist.

We had Islamist terrorists literally fly jetliners into buildings and slaughter thousands. Sorry to inconvenience your vacation a bit.

All of those planes were domestic flights though and wouldn't interact with border patrol at all.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#42

Post by jacquesm »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #41
bkeroack wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had Islamist terrorists literally fly jetliners into buildings and slaughter thousands. Sorry to inconvenience your vacation a bit.

All of those planes were domestic flights though and wouldn't interact with border patrol at all.

Precisely. But don't let that get in the way of some good old paranoia.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#43

Post by cma »

alreadyhere wrote: post #32
24gttghh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They don't get to examine all the bits coming into the country over the Internet, and we certainly don't want to give them that power! I believe the NSA already does this or it is within their 'jurisdiction'.

Yea, but the NSA doesn't man the borders, and nothing gives them the right to do that (as of now).

Without a court order:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveilla...

They can do much more with a court order, and the court orders almost never get turned down.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#44

Post by mikeash »

bkeroack wrote: post #35
jacquesm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a dumb response. Yes, this happened. And nothing that is currently inconveniencing millions would have made a shred of a difference there. This has been beaten to death for over 15 years. Cockpit doorlocks and passengers being more willing to actively resist hijackers is what made the difference. Border searches on incoming (not domestic) flights not so much, especially not of electronics data as well as persona…

TIL that a relatively mild increase in border security is an "overreaction" to entire floors of people being incinerated alive. God Bless. I'm glad they weren't your family.

It is when that increase in border security wouldn't have prevented the attack.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#45

Post by mikeash »

crispyambulance wrote: post #24
outoftacos wrote: post #2

I haven't traveled abroad in a couple years, so I'm not sure exactly how this works, but I would be unable to contain my laughter if some CBP cop asked me to unlock my phone or laptop. Is this something that actually happens nowadays? Why on earth would anyone ever consent to this nonsense?

I, and almost anyone else, would consent to it for the sake of getting on the flight. Yeah, I don't like it either. It doesn't happen a lot, but when it does I imagine these outcomes: 1) Handover unlocked device, let CBP knuckle-dragger browse through it, in front of me, until they're bored and they hand it back. Get on flight. This is the best case scenario. 2) Handover unlocked device, CPB knucke-dragger takes it t…

If you are a US citizen entering the US (don't try this if you're a green card holder or a visitor), then in the case of (3), they can't hold you indefinitely, although they can hold your phone indefinitely.

This has never happened to me, and it probably never will, but if it does my plan is to refuse to unlock the phone and wait it out.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#46

Post by tryingagainbro »

ScottBurson wrote: post #16

The distinction I would suggest is that CBP should have the power to search the effects of entering travelers looking for physical contraband; so, for instance, to examine a laptop and cell phone to make sure they're not fakes full of cocaine or fentanyl or something. They should have no jurisdiction over information . They don't get to examine all the bits coming into the country over the Internet, and we certainly…

>> They should have no jurisdiction over information.

Devils'a advocate: But some information is illegal in USA, like kiddie pron, terrorist stuff, stolen trade secrets etc...so we have to make sure it doesn't enter USA.

On the other hand, they can send it via the internet, making border searches less effective. And since they're really burdensome and affect privacy of everyone the court might do away with them. Hopefully

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#47

Post by rothbardrand »

takeda wrote: post #3

outofatacos wrote: > I haven't traveled abroad in a couple years, so I'm not sure exactly how this works, but I would be unable to contain my laughter if some CBP cop asked me to unlock my phone or laptop. Is this something that actually happens nowadays? Why on earth would anyone ever consent to this nonsense? For some reason this comment is dead and it is a valid question IMO. For people who don't know, if you don'…

> confiscate

Steal. Confiscation without a warrant is theft. With a warrant they may be able to search, but failing to return within 48 hours is also theft.

Alas, the government steals so much in so many different ways, and runs schools indoctrinating children in "patriotism" that its hard for people to see these things anymore.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#48

Post by 794CD01 »

dsp1234 wrote: post #19
wallace_f wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have my whole life on my phone and laptop. Most of the details and particularly papers , as stated in the 4th, of my life are contained there. I also need my devices to function and keep up like a normal person in 2017, and to keep a job. So if I need to leave the country and come back, and must bring them, I just forfeited my expectation of privacy guaranteed by the bill of rights?

I should no longer have any expectation of privacy The above poster suggests even worse. "until you are actually in the United States, you have no reasonable expectation of the Bill of Rights.". They suggest you have no constitutional rights outside of the US border. Forget your cell phone, this would imply that black bag operations are completely legal as long as the US citizen is outside of US borders at the time.

No, it implies that they are not illegal, and I would agree. That doesn't necessarily mean they are legal - they are alegal since US law does not apply outside its borders. Just like there doesn't need to be a US law making it legal for you to hire a prostitute in the Netherlands or gamble in an Indian reservation.

Admittedly, that argument is not very convincing for the US in particular so pretend we are talking about some other country that is not the self-appointed world police.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#49

Post by valuearb »

bkeroack wrote: post #35
jacquesm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a dumb response. Yes, this happened. And nothing that is currently inconveniencing millions would have made a shred of a difference there. This has been beaten to death for over 15 years. Cockpit doorlocks and passengers being more willing to actively resist hijackers is what made the difference. Border searches on incoming (not domestic) flights not so much, especially not of electronics data as well as persona…

TIL that a relatively mild increase in border security is an "overreaction" to entire floors of people being incinerated alive. God Bless. I'm glad they weren't your family.

Im sure if they could still speak, most would be shocked at how we gave Bin Laden everything he wanted by eliminating some of our own civil liberties.

Re: EFF, ACLU Sue Over Warrantless Phone, Laptop Searches at U.S. Border

#50

Post by rothbardrand »

bkeroack wrote: post #31
jacquesm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, tbh it wasn't all that appealing even without these ridiculous rules. I used to travel there several times per year, haven't been back in over a decade now. There is a lot more than just these searches from the point of view of an international business traveler or tourist.

We had Islamist terrorists literally fly jetliners into buildings and slaughter thousands. Sorry to inconvenience your vacation a bit.

Prove it.

Seriously. There was much to question about the investigation, the "report" was less than credible and other than press releases form the government there is not much proof of who was behind what happened that day.

Of cours there were a lot of stunts like miraculous passports showing up blocks away unsinged, while "jet fuel" brought down concrete and steel buildings, including a building that wasn't hit by a jet nor doused in fuel (WTC 7)

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