Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

.Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown

eff.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 58 posts

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown

#31

Post by tirant »

enriquto wrote: post #22
faragon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article is excellent. It explains pretty well the lies of the rebel regional government.

the article is severely biased To be fair, it is very difficult to find unbiased and knowledgeable people writing about this. It is best to not rely on only one kind of source if you want to form an opinion.

I do not think the article is so biased. Puigdemont has totally ignored the law and used his position in power to organize a referendum without any kind of warranties with the only intention to provoke a police intervention from Madrid's government and thus increase the support to his cause.

If the real intention was to organize a referendum, it could have been done with preparation, lawfully and negotiated with other regional political forces who are also supporting it.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown

#32

Post by Oletros »

tirant wrote: post #25
princekolt wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you even read the article? Or did you just jerk-reply in an effort to criticize people or the movement? > First, the content in question here is essentially political speech, which the European Court of Human Rights has ruled as deserving of a higher level of protection than some other forms of speech. Even though the speech concerns a referendum that has been ruled illegal, the speech does not in itself pose any…

In the broad sense of the word, yes, it is censorship. But I do not think it falls under political speech. The content blocked is content being announced by an official entity (Generalitat) containing information about the unilateral organization of a referendum. The Generalitat as an official organism needs to abide by the existing constitutional laws. The judge as initial measure, has dictated to retrieve all offic…

And this is what EFF says:

>Whether it's allegations of sedition or any other form of unlawful or controversial speech, domain name intermediaries should not be held responsible for the content of websites that utilize their domains. If such content is unlawful, a court order directed to the publisher or host of that content is the appropriate way for authorities to deal with that illegality, rather than the blanket removal of entire domains from the Internet.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown

#33

Post by Oletros »

tirant wrote: post #31
enriquto wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the article is severely biased To be fair, it is very difficult to find unbiased and knowledgeable people writing about this. It is best to not rely on only one kind of source if you want to form an opinion.

I do not think the article is so biased. Puigdemont has totally ignored the law and used his position in power to organize a referendum without any kind of warranties with the only intention to provoke a police intervention from Madrid's government and thus increase the support to his cause. If the real intention was to organize a referendum, it could have been done with preparation, lawfully and negotiated with othe…

Agreeing with you first part, I don't agree with your second paragraph.

It has been tried for years, not only in Catalonia, but also in Euskadi.

The Spanish law was changed en 2006 to make those referendums ilegal

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown

#34

Post by tbatchelli »

fabianmg wrote: post #4

Also, the didn't government didn't ruled the referendum illegal a constitutional COURT did it. And the detentions and search were ordered by a JUDGE from Barcelona that not long ago was awarded by the same Catalan government that now is criticizing him. Please read this to know the facts: https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/09/20/inenglish/1505917320_78...

The referendum hasn't been ruled illegal. The constitutional court grants an automatic stay on any law at the Spanish central government request. Automatic. They haven't made a judgement.

And by the way, this is a political problem that the Spanish government refuses to tackle politically, making it a criminal issue. Is it criminal to want to not belong to a country that thinks that promoting a referendum is a crime?

Also, El Pais is certainly not partisan, no...

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown

#35

Post by tbatchelli »

fabianmg wrote: post #10
princekolt wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you even read the article? Or did you just jerk-reply in an effort to criticize people or the movement? > First, the content in question here is essentially political speech, which the European Court of Human Rights has ruled as deserving of a higher level of protection than some other forms of speech. Even though the speech concerns a referendum that has been ruled illegal, the speech does not in itself pose any…

There's a system of law in Spain, is called the constitution. And the unilateral call for seccession or doing a referendum not allowed by the constitution or the courts is not allowed in any democracy. I'm in favor of a referendum so the catalans can decide if they want to be in Spain or not. But I'm not in favor of a unilateral decision.

Yeah, my grandfather was also given a death sentence under the rule of the law, because of his political ideas. That was Spain. Laws can be immoral. Breaking immoral laws is a duty of everyone. Now these immoral laws are applied to Catalans who want to vote, but next it can be you.

Women wouldn't be voting if they never broke the law first.

Giving a Tax amnesty to very rich tax dodgers (as the current Spanish government has done recently) has been ruled to be against the Rule of The Law and the Spanish Constitution, yes? Who is going to jail for this? No one.

The constitution only matters when it matters to some.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown

#36

Post by faragon »

toast0 wrote: post #24
fabianmg wrote: post #4

Also, the didn't government didn't ruled the referendum illegal a constitutional COURT did it. And the detentions and search were ordered by a JUDGE from Barcelona that not long ago was awarded by the same Catalan government that now is criticizing him. Please read this to know the facts: https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/09/20/inenglish/1505917320_78...

A court is an arm of the Kingdom of Spain, and a judge is a Kingdom employee. In US parlance, where the EFF is based, we would say the court is an arm of the government, and the judge is a government employee, thus this is a government action. In European parlance, 'the government' often means the currently in-power group of legislative representatives, which causes much confusion in the US when we hear 'a new govern…

Spanish King has no actual power, we have a democratic monarchy.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown

#37

Post by flyingfences »

euyyn wrote: post #23
antaviana wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal" - Martin Luther King, Jr.

Hyperbole much?

Not really. We're talking about a government using its violent abilities to censor dissent.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown

#38

Post by tbatchelli »

faragon wrote: post #36
toast0 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A court is an arm of the Kingdom of Spain, and a judge is a Kingdom employee. In US parlance, where the EFF is based, we would say the court is an arm of the government, and the judge is a government employee, thus this is a government action. In European parlance, 'the government' often means the currently in-power group of legislative representatives, which causes much confusion in the US when we hear 'a new govern…

Spanish King has no actual power, we have a democratic monarchy.

Monarchies are not democratic. Unless I can vote the King, that is.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown

#40

Post by grimborg »

fabianmg wrote: post #8

The .cat domain was seized because the organization in charge of the domain IGNORED the orders issued by a JUDGE. So saying: > "If such content is unlawful, a court order directed to the publisher or host of that content is the appropriate way for authorities to deal with that illegality, rather than the blanket removal of entire domains from the Internet." Is simply put, bulshit. A court ordered taking down illegal…

Self determination is a human right. It is not unlawful, and a referendum about it isn’t either. If a certain law doesn’t allow for it, the law is wrong.

Of course, Spain is also calling thoroughly pacific demonstrations “tumultuous” so that they can accuse politicians of sedition, so Spain clearly doesn’t care about truth and law.

Post reply on HN