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Basic Income Research Proposal

basicincome.ycr.org

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Re: Basic Income Research Proposal

#361

Post by Frondo »

hossbeast wrote: post #350
Frondo wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you would, and you know what? Good for you if you do. Just about everyone I know would start a business, volunteer, do creative things, contribute to making the world a better place. But, at the end of the day, I don't care how people spend their time or their money. If some fraction of the population wanted to bum around on their minimal UBI for the rest of their lives, fine by me. It's never going to lead to…

If you don't care at all, then why are you okay financing that situation with your taxes?

Shit, man. If "financing things I don't like with my taxes" is the hill I'm going to die on, I'm going to set my sights on the insane military budget we use to turn far-away countries into toilets and parking lots.

Funding my fellow countrymen who want to squander their lives, so long as they're doing so peacefully and in the privacy of their own homes? Sign. me. up.

Re: Basic Income Research Proposal

#362

Post by incompatible »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #355
incompatible wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-interest overrides politics in this case. Forcing employers to pay more is also likely to be preferable to helping the low-paid in a way that involved raising taxes.

Of course, but the overriding self interest here is wanting to not be inconvenienced by seeing the poor, not some altruistic idea that everyone who works a full week deserves a wealthy Western-style "living wage." Just starting with the notion that 70% of the world's population lives on less than $10 per day should shine some serious light on how silly the idea is that there's enough resources and money on the planet…

Shortage of money is never the issue, governments can print as much as they like. Supply of labour obviously isn't an issue either. The question is why this labour can't be used to produce goods and services in the way that Western countries manage to do, and the answers probably relate to education, poor practices in government and society such as corruption, or lack of capital (in the form of buildings, machinery, roads etc.)

Re: Basic Income Research Proposal

#363

Post by incompatible »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #358
incompatible wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, self-interest is involved in maintaining the minimum wage, since people may imagine that if wages are dragged down at the lower end, it may pull them down at higher levels too. Minimum wages in other countries don't matter, since they have no intention of working in those countries. Do people care if wages are higher than they should be, according to supply and demand, and causing some underemployment? Even eco…

Yes, people care if wages are higher than they should be. Were you not around when all the $15 minimum wage discussions were going on? In a thread earlier about FedEx using the old "private contractor" schtick with their drivers someone made the relative comparison to pizza delivery drivers. Specifically they said that since FedEx drivers don't get benefits, retirement, etc. that they are basically glorified pizza de…

$15 minimum wage discussions, in the US? I only vaguely remember it. I'm in Australia and the minimum wage is currently $18.29 AUD (I suppose a bit under $15 USD). I'd say anybody suggesting it should be cut would have no ambition of ever being elected to a political office.

It's funny how people have such ideas about who "deserves" to be paid how much. It has nothing to do with supply and demand, making the labour "market" somewhat dysfunctional when judged as a market.

Re: Basic Income Research Proposal

#364

Post by Consultant32452 »

incompatible wrote: post #363
Consultant32452 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, people care if wages are higher than they should be. Were you not around when all the $15 minimum wage discussions were going on? In a thread earlier about FedEx using the old "private contractor" schtick with their drivers someone made the relative comparison to pizza delivery drivers. Specifically they said that since FedEx drivers don't get benefits, retirement, etc. that they are basically glorified pizza de…

$15 minimum wage discussions, in the US? I only vaguely remember it. I'm in Australia and the minimum wage is currently $18.29 AUD (I suppose a bit under $15 USD). I'd say anybody suggesting it should be cut would have no ambition of ever being elected to a political office. It's funny how people have such ideas about who "deserves" to be paid how much. It has nothing to do with supply and demand, making the labour "…

I agree with you about the market. In this case there was a political candidate who ran on a policy which included raising the minimum wage to $15/hr from its current $7-something. There was a lot of fuss both ways about how minimum wage jobs were designed for high school kids vs there's lots of adults making minimum wage and they deserve a living wage, etc.

Re: Basic Income Research Proposal

#365

Post by anigbrowl »

nnfy wrote: post #262
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please. Have you ever lived in poverty? Yes, yes I have. I grew up in it. And most of my friends are struggling to make ends meet, working at restaurants, nail salons, and cafes. There's no glory in realizing that you can't make rent this month and you need to beg your landlord, or that after rent you have $50 leftover for a month's expenses. I've been there. > They live out of the projects but stereotypically driv…

I am not arguing that supply if finite, I am arguing that extraction of supply is finite and if you deincentivise millions of people from working while throwing money at them, you further reduce supply and exacerbate long term economic problems. >So you're using a stereotype to make your argument? Come on The argument could have been made without the stereotype, I agree. But it is an open secret in NYC that people, e…

open secret...people abuse the welfare system

I found one of them for you https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/07/15/fb...

Re: Basic Income Research Proposal

#366

Post by jacalata »

hossbeast wrote: post #350
Frondo wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you would, and you know what? Good for you if you do. Just about everyone I know would start a business, volunteer, do creative things, contribute to making the world a better place. But, at the end of the day, I don't care how people spend their time or their money. If some fraction of the population wanted to bum around on their minimal UBI for the rest of their lives, fine by me. It's never going to lead to…

If you don't care at all, then why are you okay financing that situation with your taxes?

Because all they care about is that people are given the opportunity? Your question is a complete non sequiter.

Re: Basic Income Research Proposal

#367

Post by peterburkimsher »

A few questions:

Will there be travel restrictions? (if someone is receiving this money, do they have to stay in the same city/country, or can they move?)

What age ranges will be included in the study? [I found the answer in the report: it's 21 to 40]

Is there a control group that won't be interviewed regularly? I'm more motivated when my boss talks to me. Requiring people to meticulously manage their time will already bring a productivity boost.

What about controlling for the end date? My contracts last for 1 year at a time. If I suddenly knew I'd have a steady income for 5 years, that would be a huge relief, and I'd change my lifestyle accordingly and settle down (e.g. be able to plan to start a family). That feeling is independent of the amount of money, it's just the stability.

My first feeling is that living with basic income will be similar to retirement. (and there's a lot more data about what retired people spend their time doing).

Re: Basic Income Research Proposal

#368

Post by dang »

nnfy wrote: post #212
maxxxxx wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also have to look at the effect of UBI over generations. Children growing up with UBI may never see people close to them who do actual work. I once had a summer job at a welfare/employment agency. A lot of the people who received welfare in the second or third generation often had no idea how a job works. They were late all the time or just didn't show up for a week. The social worker had to explain to them how a…

>A lot of the people who received welfare in the second or third generation often had no idea how a job works. They were late all the time or just didn't show up for a week. I dont understand. You have seen firsthand how entitlements ruin people, and you're arguing that UBI will be good for society? Edit: why the down votes? Are adults who do not understand the concept of a job not a problem? How else could so many o…

Your comments are probably being downvoted (correctly) because they break the HN guidelines by posting ideological boilerplate and being uncharitable in interpreting others.

We've had to ask you not to do these things before. Would you kindly re-read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and fix this? We'd greatly appreciate your help in raising discussion quality above that bar.

Re: Basic Income Research Proposal

#369

Post by Larrikin »

eanzenberg wrote: post #274
vorotato wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said without any research backing their statement whatsoever...

It's common sense if you have any interaction with US society. Not every common sense thing needs to be verified by a costly scientific study. Though some researchers try.

It's commonly said to be common sense to justify cutting and severely restricting social programs, but rarely with supporting evidence of widespread abuse. Usually just small amounts.

Re: Basic Income Research Proposal

#370

Post by conanbatt »

bduerst wrote: post #113
xienze wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of BI, I disagree. Politicians will see this for what it really is -- the most direct way to buy votes (by promising increased BI). It would be quite popular with both parties, I'm sure.

One party's platform is built on the fear of socialism - they will most definitely oppose this and use it to get votes, but by egging it publicly.

Tbe republican party like UBI if it comes with a reduction in welfare programs. Its the democrats that have to be convinced.
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