Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There's a legal way to change the Spanish Constitution. Changing how when the two main parties are against this change? That argument is just an excuse. Articles of the Estatut d'Autonomia where denunced by present the ruling part declared invalid by the TC but that same party wrote carbon copies of them in other Estatutes it say how the situation can change.
Oh, I see, the observance of the Law is just an excuse. If you state "that same party wrote carbon copies of them in other Estatutes" you have to give us sources.
Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
191–200 of 243 posts
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you mean? in the scottish referendum only scots voted, not all brits. Are you saying that all spaniards (not only those living in Catalonia) should vote in the referendum? I don't see how this makes any sense.
Spain is for all the spaniards. All have the same basic rights as the right to move freely inside the entire country, to work and live when they want inside its frontiers and to decide together about the destiny of their country. With logical exceptions (like requiring granted access to private areas); this super-basic concept is in use in all free and democratic countries of the world. New York people can't wake up…
> Spain is for all the spaniards. All have the same basic rights as the right to move freely inside the entire country, to work and live when they want inside its frontiers and to decide together about the destiny of their country. With logical exceptions (like requiring granted access to private areas); this super-basic concept is in use in all free and democratic countries of the world.
Think that has nothing to do with a part of an state voting their secession and not the whole country.
A question to all of the people that say that the whole country should vote.
What would you do if more than 70% of the population of a part of the state would be independent? Allow them the independence and start the negotiations or don't allow>
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#193This is an example of a seized web site http://ref1oct.cat/ it had information about the poll. The JS in the source is really sad, one of the options click baits you to an Spanish sports newspaper.
Wow the coat of arms of the Spanish government still has a fasces on it? You learn something every day.
That is not the Spanish coat of arms, it is the Guardia Civil coat
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#194Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#195It's really funny listening to the President of the government of Catalonia talking about repression when his salary is 145.471 euros, and the President of the government of Spain salary is 78.185,04 euros. Yep, the public salary of many presidents of a part of Spain is bigger than the president of the whole. That's for give you a picture of the current craziness.
You won't get many responses because the PC thing is to side with Catalonia, but this is the whole story: a money grab scheme. It's been going on for ages. With B- debt rating, collapsing health care system, and massive public spending on things like the one you mention, they simply need money. Plan post-independence is to seize all public assets belonging to the Spanish state (funds, buildings, public companies, ...), while retaining their first customer (the rest of Spain), pay no tariffs (stay in EU), and no taxes to central state.
Before anyone answer with "but the Spanish state too": yes, same shit, which doesn't invalidate anything I said.
edit: wording
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#196When I was dating a Croatian girl, I asked her which country reminded her most of pre-war Yugoslavia. "Spain," she said, without skipping a beat. "It's eerily similar. All power and wealth flowing to the capital in the center of the country? Check. Generations-long repression of regional, cultural, and linguistic diversity? Check. Awkward tendency to rewrite history to avoid open discussion of WWII-era atrocities? Ch…
"Brutal repression of freedom of speech or demonstrations" "Spain's a stable republic" It's saddens me to see so much ignorance and nonsense. Keeping aside that Spain is a monarchy, in today's Catalonia people have to fight for basic things like the right to educate their children in Spanish, mayors who do not support the referendum are being harrased by the radicals... that is a little example of the "oppresion" you…
> right to educate their children in Spanish
This is the kind of nonsense Catalans need to read every day from Spanish media.
100% of the children who finish secondary education in Catalonia are perfectly fluent in Catalan and Spanish.
What those people want is to prevent their kids from learning Catalan.
The amount lies, BS and bigotry that comes from unionists is amazing.
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Times change, the world changes, people change. A constitution is a very important document for a country There are legal ways to change a constitution. In all cases, it starts by changing public opinion.
I wonder how some of these posters would feel if this was a California referendum requesting independence.
Texas vs White established unilateral secession is unconstitutional. Other states would have to support California's wish to leave the Union.
Having said that, the US is a beast very different from Spain, affording its states far more autonomy than the norm.
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm referring to the right of self-determination. It might not fall under one of the principles of democracy (my apologies), but it's certainly a basic right ( http://www.unpo.org/article/4957 ) The Spanish constitution won't change because it's in their best interest to not do so, which is why this illegal referendum is being created. If they wanted the Estatut to pass, they would have passed; they didn't pass it be…
It is not "certainly" a basic right. Some countries accept it, others do not. As for the cultural, language and historical I see absolutely no basis for this referendum. Cultural wise I have never, ever, see the slightless difference between catalonians and people for the rest of Spain. What will be the difference between someone that lives in Tarragona and someone from Valencia? Of course it's all a smooth change, a…
The right of self-determination is certainly a fundamental right (or that's what United Nations says, and Spain signed it).
I have never lived in Texas nor NYC, so I can't really say much about it. I believe that Catalonia is large enough to warrant a referendum if enough people want it, especially given that so many people disagree with the treatment they are receiving from Spain. I accept the argument that we might not be different enough, but it's not the main reason a referendum should be held, in my opinion, and I'm not aware of many people from Valencia or Balears who want to leave Spain. At which point a region of a country has the right to secede? Or you are implying that no region from no country should ever have that right?
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
My point is: How would you react if a regional government (which represent 30-40% of the people there) in your country stops obeying the constitution? Would you not stop the privacy infringement that is using census data ilegally? Would you not protect the 60-70% who didn’t vote the ruling party?
If 30-40% of the people want to leave your country, you have a problem. Hiding behind legal strictures made 40 years ago ignores the core issue entirely. The proper thing for the Spanish government to do is to sit down with the Catalans and engage in meaningful dialogue. Not kick in doors and jail people for participating in a non-binding referendum.
Just in case you didn’t read it right: 30-40% of Catalonia, which in whole is less than 20% of Spain’s population... so that’s like a 5-7% of Spanish population? The constitution is for all Spaniards.
Re: Spanish police raid .Cat domain name registry offices
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
I follow the numbers closely... it’s always coming from CIS. It seems to have risin after the attacks. http://www.elmundo.es/cataluna/2017/07/21/5971c7f7468aebd53d...
That link doesn't talk about support to a vote, just for independence
Support for the vote is at least the same for independence. It’s more, some people against independence are in favor of the vote