Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

automotivelinux.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 113 posts

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#91

Post by pjmorris »

b1daly wrote: post #48

This just reminded me of my personal pet "first world problem." The move from hardware based interfaces to touch screen interfaces is an astonishing regression in usability. Older car "audio" systems could be controlled with simple knob and button interfaces. This would allow the user to fine tune the audio playback, as well as find radio stations, without having to look at the device. Asside from picking the music,…

> If I ever"upgrade" my car audio, I'm going back to an old-school style unit, with an aux plugin.

Last week at lunch, we were lamenting the disappearance of headphone jacks from phones. We speculated that a Bluetooth-to-jack adapter would be a popular accessory, letting people keep their old headphones for use with their latest media players. I'd wager there's a whole class of products that might fit here, for example a set of old-fashioned analog knobs backed by Bluetooth or some other interface to the players, as an alternative for those who feel more comfortable - or safer - with the old gear.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#92

Post by geiseric »

hpcjoe wrote: post #74
b1daly wrote: post #48

This just reminded me of my personal pet "first world problem." The move from hardware based interfaces to touch screen interfaces is an astonishing regression in usability. Older car "audio" systems could be controlled with simple knob and button interfaces. This would allow the user to fine tune the audio playback, as well as find radio stations, without having to look at the device. Asside from picking the music,…

Most of my rental cars now use touch screen interface. Elsewhere in this page, a developer complained that we "just don't take the time to learn what we need to." No. Just ... no. A critical control system should be simple, able to be used without taking one's eyes off the wheel/road. Any control system (atmosphere, lights, defroster, wipers, ...) that requires you to remove your attention from the road in order to o…

I agree somewhat here. My car has volume controls and station changer on the backside of the wheel, along with knobs for the volume. I have knobs and or an up/down arrow for temperature adjustment.(Depending on the car I'm driving.) Ironically Navigation is completely touch screen, which is dangerous. I tend to use my phone if I need directions, because the car system is cumbersom.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#93

Post by chiph »

djsumdog wrote: post #71
tzs wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse, I believe some cars are now doing this with almost all of the controls, not just the entertainment system controls. Controls I want to operate without looking at them: fan, temperature, air routing, defrost, windshield wipers, high beams, turn signals.

I was surprised with a friend's Jeep where the seat warmers were in the touch screen interface. Really? On my old 2003 wagon, they were just dials.

To be fair, on a Jeep the screen is probably easier to seal against dust/dirt intrusion. But otherwise, I agree and much prefer buttons/knobs. Also - heated seats? On a Jeep? Being uncomfortable is part of what you're paying for...

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#94

Post by geiseric »

justin66 wrote: post #84
b1daly wrote: post #48

This just reminded me of my personal pet "first world problem." The move from hardware based interfaces to touch screen interfaces is an astonishing regression in usability. Older car "audio" systems could be controlled with simple knob and button interfaces. This would allow the user to fine tune the audio playback, as well as find radio stations, without having to look at the device. Asside from picking the music,…

> In my current run of the mill, screen based, "infotainment" system, doing this without endanger myself and others, requires stopping the vehicle, and undertaking a series of awkward and unresponsive controls, none of which are accessed on the same screen! Toyota, the automaker under discussion here, offers steering wheel controls that are pretty decent. The main weakness of such systems is that the interface betwee…

I own GM products and an Audi. My GM vehicles have Apple Carplay integrated, the only catch is I need to plug my iPhone in via the USB on the car and that menu shows up. Even with just Bluetooth, I have decent control, via stearing wheel and touch screen.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#95

Post by mschuster91 »

captainmuon wrote: post #67
sircastor wrote: post #26

Infotainment system developer here, A number of people have mentioned preferring/wanting Android Auto/CarPlay in their infotainment systems, and that it would be preferable to many of the systems that exist in current vehicles. I have a couple of thoughts. The Infotainment system is one of the most user-facing components of the vehicle. It's something that can reflect the brand identity of the vehicle, and most OEMs…

No offense, but I have yet to find a infotainment system that I liked. They reflect the brand identity of the vehicle, yes, but badly. The majority of in-car-entertainment systems are clunky, slow, and look outdated. The hardware is already at release a few years behind, and you can't easily replace it. (This also applied to smart TVs, and to some extent to in-flight-entertainment). What I would love is a simple stan…

> What I would love is a simple standard for aftermarket radios, like you used to have. One connector, and it wires up to the speakers, a display (that you can replace), and all the hardware buttons e.g. in the steering wheel. You'd have a one-way connection from the car to the device for information like speed.

That would be nice, but unfortunately it has a number of drawbacks:

1) "one connector" does not work well with today's 20+ speakers

2) display interface? Either you do it using DSI as interface (which is fucked up so bad that a Raspberry Pi supports exactly one specific type of display - and when even the Pi hackers can't get it done, I seriously doubt car makers can), or you use HDMI which will lead to vibration issues. Furthermore, the range of display resolutions, aspect ratios etc (you can have anything from 320x240 to retina FHD)... no way ever that radio/car makers will implement this.

3) Interface to rest of car (HW buttons, speed feedback, and maybe even GPS/IMU for navigation): no standard for this except CAN-bus, which is a security hellhole itself...

I agree that having the option would be nice but it's a real niche market.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#96

Post by kirykl »

pjmorris wrote: post #91
b1daly wrote: post #48

This just reminded me of my personal pet "first world problem." The move from hardware based interfaces to touch screen interfaces is an astonishing regression in usability. Older car "audio" systems could be controlled with simple knob and button interfaces. This would allow the user to fine tune the audio playback, as well as find radio stations, without having to look at the device. Asside from picking the music,…

> If I ever"upgrade" my car audio, I'm going back to an old-school style unit, with an aux plugin. Last week at lunch, we were lamenting the disappearance of headphone jacks from phones. We speculated that a Bluetooth-to-jack adapter would be a popular accessory, letting people keep their old headphones for use with their latest media players. I'd wager there's a whole class of products that might fit here, for examp…

https://flic.io/ and the classic https://griffintechnology.com/us/powermate-bluetooth

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#97

Post by [deleted] »

hpcjoe wrote: post #74
b1daly wrote: post #48

This just reminded me of my personal pet "first world problem." The move from hardware based interfaces to touch screen interfaces is an astonishing regression in usability. Older car "audio" systems could be controlled with simple knob and button interfaces. This would allow the user to fine tune the audio playback, as well as find radio stations, without having to look at the device. Asside from picking the music,…

Most of my rental cars now use touch screen interface. Elsewhere in this page, a developer complained that we "just don't take the time to learn what we need to." No. Just ... no. A critical control system should be simple, able to be used without taking one's eyes off the wheel/road. Any control system (atmosphere, lights, defroster, wipers, ...) that requires you to remove your attention from the road in order to o…

[deleted]

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#98

Post by justin66 »

geiseric wrote: post #94
justin66 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my current run of the mill, screen based, "infotainment" system, doing this without endanger myself and others, requires stopping the vehicle, and undertaking a series of awkward and unresponsive controls, none of which are accessed on the same screen! Toyota, the automaker under discussion here, offers steering wheel controls that are pretty decent. The main weakness of such systems is that the interface betwee…

I own GM products and an Audi. My GM vehicles have Apple Carplay integrated, the only catch is I need to plug my iPhone in via the USB on the car and that menu shows up. Even with just Bluetooth, I have decent control, via stearing wheel and touch screen.

How sophisticated are the things you can do to control the stereo and song selection without taking your eyes off the road? I have to admit that for me, that's pretty much the whole ballgame. I can see how something like Siri might aid that, potentially.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#99

Post by captainmuon »

mschuster91 wrote: post #95
captainmuon wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense, but I have yet to find a infotainment system that I liked. They reflect the brand identity of the vehicle, yes, but badly. The majority of in-car-entertainment systems are clunky, slow, and look outdated. The hardware is already at release a few years behind, and you can't easily replace it. (This also applied to smart TVs, and to some extent to in-flight-entertainment). What I would love is a simple stan…

> What I would love is a simple standard for aftermarket radios, like you used to have. One connector, and it wires up to the speakers, a display (that you can replace), and all the hardware buttons e.g. in the steering wheel. You'd have a one-way connection from the car to the device for information like speed. That would be nice, but unfortunately it has a number of drawbacks: 1) "one connector" does not work well…

I don't think it is that unrealistic. It seems that for 1), aftermarket radios are available for most cars and can utilize the speakers. There are various adapters available. For 2) I can imagine HDMI or DVI, if necessary with a more sturdy connector. Stock monitors have supported multiple resolutions for 20 years. For 3), it seems there is information available to access this from CAN or LIN buses or ODB. Lots of hobbyists do this. I can imagine you could buy an adapter for, say, "Ford 2010-2014", like you can do with various aftermarket parts.

It might be a niche market, but so are all kinds of aftermarket mods for cars. And I think if somebody did to car stereos what Nest did to thermostats, it would be phenomenal.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#100

Post by captainmuon »

blub wrote: post #87
captainmuon wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense, but I have yet to find a infotainment system that I liked. They reflect the brand identity of the vehicle, yes, but badly. The majority of in-car-entertainment systems are clunky, slow, and look outdated. The hardware is already at release a few years behind, and you can't easily replace it. (This also applied to smart TVs, and to some extent to in-flight-entertainment). What I would love is a simple stan…

Actually, that is very hard and also without any benefit for car manufacturers.

They could advertise support for the Bose/Sony/Apple/whatever premium entertainment system; a standard - even a very basic one - might also reduce development work, as you can use preexisting connectors etc.

And, at least for me, if I would buy a new car, repairability and replaceability or parts is a consideration. And if I had $1000 to spare, I'd buy a hifi unit from a dedicated manufacturer - and would prefer a car vendor that makes that easy. I've never heard the entertainment system be the decisive factor in choosing a car - but I know people who put off buying an e-mobile because they usually have annoying computers built in.

Finally, I don't think the car vendors would neccessarily do this. You'd probably have third party vendors selling adapters. Crazy cable tree in, nice plug out.

Post reply on HN