Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

automotivelinux.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 113 posts

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#61

Post by phkahler »

b1daly wrote: post #48

This just reminded me of my personal pet "first world problem." The move from hardware based interfaces to touch screen interfaces is an astonishing regression in usability. Older car "audio" systems could be controlled with simple knob and button interfaces. This would allow the user to fine tune the audio playback, as well as find radio stations, without having to look at the device. Asside from picking the music,…

Totally agree. My car radio still has 10 station preset buttons that are very easy to access along with next/prev buttons on the steering wheel. My wife care has a touch screen where only 4 stations are shown at a time and you need to push/touch extra to scroll through the list. None of it has dedicated buttons, so it's a lot of looking and poking around. Not appropriate at all for a driver.

Exceedingly poor UI design.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#62

Post by phkahler »

subway wrote: post #3

Based on everything I've read about automotive software development, I'm impressed they've managed to degrade the Linux kernel enough to call it Automotive Grade.

>> Based on everything I've read about automotive software development, I'm impressed they've managed to degrade the Linux kernel enough to call it Automotive Grade.

It's a different set of people with different constraints.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#63

Post by naibafo »

curun1r wrote: post #47
sircastor wrote: post #26

Infotainment system developer here, A number of people have mentioned preferring/wanting Android Auto/CarPlay in their infotainment systems, and that it would be preferable to many of the systems that exist in current vehicles. I have a couple of thoughts. The Infotainment system is one of the most user-facing components of the vehicle. It's something that can reflect the brand identity of the vehicle, and most OEMs…

I think you're missing the point of people saying that they want CarPlay/Android Auto. People don't want another system, they want another set of controls, screen, speakers and charging dock for their smartphone. They already have an intimate relationship with their phone. Phones are addictive. It's where people get their dopamine rushes from social media, sms and games. You can't compete with that. Even if someone i…

Most might agree, but you still need it to work without a phone with good interface and all the desired features.

Still not everybody has a smartphone. Or you have an older one and whatever software you need for the car isn't supported. Or you give the phone to the kid in the backseat to play a game...

And then having two very different ways to control stuff increases complexity. For developers and user.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#64

Post by pjmlp »

jcelerier wrote: post #59
ausjke wrote: post #13

Checked the software stack, it's basically: Yocto(OS framework) + Tizen(application framework) + Genivi(infotainment). Yocto is totally over-engineered and only RTOS vendors really enjoy it as they can sell services on top of that, it's a nightmare for small players, they should just use Buildroot the alternative to save money and time. Tizen has never reached what it wanted to be, partially because of Android. Geniv…

I don't think that Tizen is used as an application framework. In the HMI architecture document, they mention Qt, HTML5 and JavaFX for apps: https://wiki.automotivelinux.org/_media/eg-ui-graphics/17080... the WindowManager spec seems to assume Qt as default: https://wiki.automotivelinux.org/_media/agl-hmi-fw_windowman... and most of the UI demos seems to use it too : https://gerrit.automotivelinux.org/gerrit/#/admin/p…

Tizen has had multiple UI reboots since the Meego days.

The latest one is .NET Core + Xamarin.Forms.

https://developer.tizen.org/development/tizen-.net-preview/i...

I really don't thrust anything useful will ever come out of it, given how Samsung has managed it thus far.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#65

Post by stonewhite »

I think why Toyota is spearheading this AGL is related to its prior software failure related deaths[1], considering broad the scope of AGl: "..advanced driver assistance systems (ADAS) and autonomous driving.."

[1]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/toyota-unintended-acceleration-...

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#66

Post by morganvachon »

b1daly wrote: post #48

This just reminded me of my personal pet "first world problem." The move from hardware based interfaces to touch screen interfaces is an astonishing regression in usability. Older car "audio" systems could be controlled with simple knob and button interfaces. This would allow the user to fine tune the audio playback, as well as find radio stations, without having to look at the device. Asside from picking the music,…

"If I ever"upgrade" my car audio, I'm going back to an old-school style unit, with an aux plugin."

I ended up splitting the difference, going for a modern Bluetooth equipped radio with old-school physical buttons and a knob. I play music through my phone over Bluetooth and control playback with the phone's voice control. My eyes never leave the road, and my right hand never leaves the steering wheel except to change volume, which is easy with the huge knob and muscle memory.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#67

Post by captainmuon »

sircastor wrote: post #26

Infotainment system developer here, A number of people have mentioned preferring/wanting Android Auto/CarPlay in their infotainment systems, and that it would be preferable to many of the systems that exist in current vehicles. I have a couple of thoughts. The Infotainment system is one of the most user-facing components of the vehicle. It's something that can reflect the brand identity of the vehicle, and most OEMs…

No offense, but I have yet to find a infotainment system that I liked. They reflect the brand identity of the vehicle, yes, but badly. The majority of in-car-entertainment systems are clunky, slow, and look outdated. The hardware is already at release a few years behind, and you can't easily replace it. (This also applied to smart TVs, and to some extent to in-flight-entertainment).

What I would love is a simple standard for aftermarket radios, like you used to have. One connector, and it wires up to the speakers, a display (that you can replace), and all the hardware buttons e.g. in the steering wheel. You'd have a one-way connection from the car to the device for information like speed.

When I buy a car, I don't want an integrated entertainment system. I want to buy a system from a stereo manufacturer that integrates with the card.

And I want the option to buy an "in-car-ITX" barebone from NewEgg, pop in an SD card with a LibreICE distribution or whatever, and roll my own entertainment system if I like.

I want things like changeable themes, Spotify support, information about the currently playing radio song (even if not supported by the station), and so on. I want fluid animations and no latency, readable text, and idiot-proof usage. That really shouldn't be so hard.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#68

Post by neogodless »

phkahler wrote: post #61
b1daly wrote: post #48

This just reminded me of my personal pet "first world problem." The move from hardware based interfaces to touch screen interfaces is an astonishing regression in usability. Older car "audio" systems could be controlled with simple knob and button interfaces. This would allow the user to fine tune the audio playback, as well as find radio stations, without having to look at the device. Asside from picking the music,…

Totally agree. My car radio still has 10 station preset buttons that are very easy to access along with next/prev buttons on the steering wheel. My wife care has a touch screen where only 4 stations are shown at a time and you need to push/touch extra to scroll through the list. None of it has dedicated buttons, so it's a lot of looking and poking around. Not appropriate at all for a driver. Exceedingly poor UI desig…

The worst I've seen for presets is in GM's implementation. You first have to touch a tiny "up" arrow in the bottom right of the screen, and then you have five touch presets along the bottom. Madness!

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#69

Post by kagamine »

tzs wrote: post #60
b1daly wrote: post #48

This just reminded me of my personal pet "first world problem." The move from hardware based interfaces to touch screen interfaces is an astonishing regression in usability. Older car "audio" systems could be controlled with simple knob and button interfaces. This would allow the user to fine tune the audio playback, as well as find radio stations, without having to look at the device. Asside from picking the music,…

Worse, I believe some cars are now doing this with almost all of the controls, not just the entertainment system controls. Controls I want to operate without looking at them: fan, temperature, air routing, defrost, windshield wipers, high beams, turn signals.

The fan and AC on a touch screen is an immense failure. Here in Norway there are many tunnels on the motorway and in some conditions this leads to the windscreen steaming up a few seconds after entering the tunnel. Imagine not being able to see out of the car until you fiddle with a touch screen at 120 km/h. Hire cars, where you aren't familiar with the layout are going to be a lot of 'fun'.

Re: Automotive Grade Linux Platform Debuts on the 2018 Toyota Camry

#70

Post by kagamine »

planteen wrote: post #18
interfixus wrote: post #9

Can someone explain to me, honestly, why I would want an 'entertainmaint' system built into my car? I do long commutes, I drive a lot, I am an occasional truck driver, I have crossed Australia east to west more than once - and I still don't get it. My car is the one place in the world where I stand a decent chance of escaping the all-pervading goddamn film and music industry.

I get it. I drive silent often myself when I am alone.

It's the only time I can have a coherent conversation without being interrupted (married with children), alone, in a car.

I'm soon to be audio free, no auxiliary input on the car's system and FM is being turned off this month in Norway. So, silence from now on aside from the gibbering emanating from my very own pie-hole.

Isn't there also something nice about driving along with only the faint glow of green or blue from the dashboard, not the 46" screen that Tesla have 'tastefully' mounted in the dash?

Post reply on HN