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Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

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Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#121

Post by tome »

bertolo1988 wrote: post #101
madshiva wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No bank can't create cash like they want. There's regulation, authority. Do you know how bank work? Bitcoin and all crypto currency are not secure, a lot of people lose money stole by hacker then why arguing that is secure? because there's some math behind it? There's no conspiracy with bank or governments, only people that want to be richer and richer, because of this stupid economy. The great democraty, this is the…

"No bank can't create cash like they want.", sadly they can. All they have to do is to lend some money.

No they can't. There are reserve requirements which limit the amount of bank deposits (not "money") a bank can create.

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#122

Post by reallymental »

SCdF wrote: post #108
bertolo1988 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No bank can't create cash like they want.", sadly they can. All they have to do is to lend some money.

Can you go into more detail about what you mean here?

Leverage, banks hold the ability to lend a certain sum of money to multiple parties, thereby 'creating' more money.

The amount of money lent vs the amount of parties is the leverage ratio. It's usually managed well, but can get out of hand pretty quickly.

Edit: Forgot to mention reserve amounts. They are crucial.

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#123

Post by drcross »

SCdF wrote: post #105
ftw45 wrote: post #70

No, it didn't die and it won't die anytime soon. But dollars, Euro's and all other physical currencies are about to die(soon). Why? Because just like the change from gold and silver coins to almost worthless nickel, this type of currency creates a whole new universe of possibilities. With nickel and paper money, banks can create as much cash as they like, it's virtual value, not real. Crypto currency is just like tha…

> But dollars, Euro's and all other physical currencies are about to die(soon). Are you seriously suggesting that in 10 years there will no longer any physical currencies? Or is soon 50 years? Or 100 years? Can you give a concrete vision for how that would work? > banks can create as much cash as they like, it's virtual value, not real. No they can't? The government can, but not arbitrary banks. > And again you see t…

>Are you seriously suggesting that in 10 years there will no longer any physical currencies? Or is soon 50 years? Or 100 years? Can you give a concrete vision for how that would work?

Physical currency is already less than 10% of currency.

>As I understand it, it's more that it's incredibly unstable, and can be taken over by whomever has the most cpus at any given moment.

Stability decreases as value stored in it increases. You can't bootstrap a global decentralised currency without some growing pains. The thing about bitcoin is that is constantly crashes upwards.

>I'm sure crypto currencies have lots of uses, especially for more cases around the edge (people in countries with dodgy governments etc), but I can't understand what value it provides outside of that.

It prevents fraud from Governments. Instead of allowing them to print money when they want, they can't. It allows for global transactions in minutes, 24 hours a day (every day) for far lower transaction fees. It allows an internet of money.

>or trust a random bitcoin conversion service which is not bound by any regulation

You are mixing up a currency with a payment merchant. There's no reason that Visa wouldn't be able to use Bitcoin and charge you like it currently does.

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#124

Post by rajadigopula »

rajadigopula wrote: post #97

Most analysts from traditional mindset making the mistake of analyzing bitcoin like they do stocks or fiat currency which can rely on a country's economy or political scenarios or a company's decisions to make profits. But, Bitcoin is like anything they have seen before or learnt in their college. Most volatility corresponds to news of it's survival at the moment and due to the reason the market is failing to agree w…

I think some stupid Chinese govt. bot down voted my comment.

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#125

Post by drcross »

Asdfbla wrote: post #89
paxpelus wrote: post #59

Many people on HN are so negative in bitcoin that it seems that they are focused on the tree instead of the forest. This technology can solve the main problem human society faces and this is corruption. Human greed is what keeps bitcoin alive but this is not a bug, it is a feature.

How is bitcoin a good model for humanity? If anything, it strives to do away with the little trust there is left in society and replace it with an antagonistic system where everyone is out to sabotage their peers, only being held back by a (intentionally wasteful) proof-of-work mechanism that enforces compliance with the protocol. That's a dystopic vision for humanity if I've ever seen one. Unnecessary too, since tru…

>Not to mention that proof-of-work isn't ecologically sustainable on a larger scale anyway.

Anyone who says this hasn't been to massive datacentres to see what infrastructure it takes to share your cat videos and avocado toast images. If Crypto wipes out a few banks the costs will be completely negated anyway.

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#126

Post by aerique »

ckastner wrote: post #82
Udik wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is zero (actually negative) market uptake of bitcoin as a payment platform ... This is because no work has gone into scaling up transaction throughput No, or only partly so. The other, more fundamental reason why bitcoin will never be a payment platform, is that it doesn't behave as a currency, but as a commodity. The hard limit on the number of bitcoin is both the guarantee of its value and what makes it an…

Initially I perceived Bitcoin to be a payment platform, but I too now believe that it now behaves more like a commodity. Which is odd, because without any other utility, what's the point in choosing this commodity over others?

The only reason I can think of is entirely human: because others are using it.

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#127

Post by drcross »

lokedhs wrote: post #17
harwoodleon wrote: post #14

A balanced view is that all the articles hold some substance. But the technology is more at threat through its own community than any external force. One question that I don't really understand is how can the total supply of BTC serve its own growth. If the market cap reaches the same value as gold for example - how long before one Satoshi becomes too large a divisible unit to be useful? Can you divide Satoshi?

Isn't the greater problem that the total market cap of bitcoin is always going to be 22 million? In other words, the single bitcoin I own will always be worth 1/22M of the entire market cap, regardless of how much it's used. And I only own one. There are lost of people out there who owns thousands of bitcoins. 1000 bitcoins is 1/22k of the entire market cap. How could this be sustainable?

If you had 1000 coins in 2010 that cost you 100 dollars, you don't think you're already going to sell out? People can only sell their coins once, and then they are distributed to many, many people.

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#129

Post by fnordsensei »

pzs wrote: post #113
TeMPOraL wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they now? I feel people still see Bitcoin mostly as a high-risk/high-reward no-barriers-to-entry alternative to the stock market.

That reminds me of what I read about how Warren Buffett thinks about gold [1]. His point is essentially that if you invest in gold, your return depends on the price swings until you get out, and nothing else. This is in contrast to investing in assets that actually produce something (e.g. pay dividend). I see bitcoin being very similar to gold in this respect. [1] http://business.time.com/2012/02/27/warren-buffett-on…

It's hard to disagree. Investments that don't pay dividends are essentially pyramid schemes, as they always require someone to buy them off you in order to realise their value. Stuff that pays dividends can provide you with ROI without you having to shift them on to someone else.

However, since we live on a planet with unlimited resources capable of unlimited growth, the theoretical loss of being the "last investor" is perpetually shifted to the next generation, thereby solving the pyramid scheme problem once and for all.

Once and for all, I said!

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#130

Post by slamdance »

speedplane wrote: post #93
TeMPOraL wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they now? I feel people still see Bitcoin mostly as a high-risk/high-reward no-barriers-to-entry alternative to the stock market.

I understand buying and selling BTC-backed securities that are backed by a trustworthy bank... but keeping your life savings on your laptop is just cray cray.

yes. But they also have credit card accounts, hardware wallets as well as paper wallets. If you keep your coins offline (if you're holding), they won't get hacked.
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