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Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

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Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#101

Post by bertolo1988 »

madshiva wrote: post #91
ftw45 wrote: post #70

No, it didn't die and it won't die anytime soon. But dollars, Euro's and all other physical currencies are about to die(soon). Why? Because just like the change from gold and silver coins to almost worthless nickel, this type of currency creates a whole new universe of possibilities. With nickel and paper money, banks can create as much cash as they like, it's virtual value, not real. Crypto currency is just like tha…

No bank can't create cash like they want. There's regulation, authority. Do you know how bank work? Bitcoin and all crypto currency are not secure, a lot of people lose money stole by hacker then why arguing that is secure? because there's some math behind it? There's no conspiracy with bank or governments, only people that want to be richer and richer, because of this stupid economy. The great democraty, this is the…

"No bank can't create cash like they want.", sadly they can.

All they have to do is to lend some money.

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#102

Post by Roshie5u »

cottsak wrote: post #11
cottsak wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and some kind of page bug that hangs my Chrome tab

or was that my ad blocker.. ?

Yeah, I recently saw anti-adblock script trying to look like a browser error and I totally fell for it. Only i didn't read the message and after few F5 i just closed the tab.

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#103

Post by VMG »

aedron wrote: post #31
Laforet wrote: post #12

And what is the point? Does the price prove that bitcoin has not failed? To me, bitcoin died sometime in 2013 when mining became hopelessly centralised, breaking the economic and security models Satoshi had set forth. The bitcoin thereafter has been a soulness Frankenstein animated by a mixture of ego, greed, and hubris. I don't want to make any predictions, but when the crash comes it will be over before you knew it…

So annoying to see triumphant declarations of victory of bitcoin, based solely on the price increasing. Speaking as a bitcoin owner and proponent, there is zero (actually negative) market uptake of bitcoin as a payment platform (which I happen to believe is bitcoin's primary use case). This is because no work has gone into scaling up transaction throughput, which has predictably suffered as a result of increased main…

> [..] there is no 'payment layer' on top of it, only pie-in-the-sky designs.

That is completely false. Development of Lightning Network and other solutions by multiple teams has been steady and robust. To cite a few working on LN:

* https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning

* https://github.com/acquia/lightning

* https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#104

Post by rythie »

vinchuco wrote: post #65

The sun has risen at least 166 times already, but it is not proof that the sun will rise tomorrow. My point is not to confirm or deny the bear or the bull, but to point out this is simply noise. When are market news reliable indicators of supply and demand?

However, there is much greater than 50% chance that it will.

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#105

Post by SCdF »

ftw45 wrote: post #70

No, it didn't die and it won't die anytime soon. But dollars, Euro's and all other physical currencies are about to die(soon). Why? Because just like the change from gold and silver coins to almost worthless nickel, this type of currency creates a whole new universe of possibilities. With nickel and paper money, banks can create as much cash as they like, it's virtual value, not real. Crypto currency is just like tha…

> But dollars, Euro's and all other physical currencies are about to die(soon).

Are you seriously suggesting that in 10 years there will no longer any physical currencies? Or is soon 50 years? Or 100 years? Can you give a concrete vision for how that would work?

> banks can create as much cash as they like, it's virtual value, not real.

No they can't? The government can, but not arbitrary banks.

> And again you see the allegations that crypto would be a pyramid scheme etc

As I understand it, it's more that it's incredibly unstable, and can be taken over by whomever has the most cpus at any given moment.

I'm sure crypto currencies have lots of uses, especially for more cases around the edge (people in countries with dodgy governments etc), but I can't understand what value it provides outside of that.

I am no expert. At the moment though, if I want to buy a widget online, and I have visa or bitcoin as my options, my choices are either to trust visa, the company that is bound by at least some regulation, has a physical office and PR that can be damaged, or trust a random bitcoin conversion service which is not bound by any regulation, could literally just disappear with my money, could record an internal log of every single transaction and tell it to third parties etc… and then disappear into the night if something went wrong.

Maybe this is all incorrect. But this is the perception that I and others have. So it's either an actual issue, or an issue of bad marketing.

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#106

Post by VMG »

Udik wrote: post #73
aedron wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So annoying to see triumphant declarations of victory of bitcoin, based solely on the price increasing. Speaking as a bitcoin owner and proponent, there is zero (actually negative) market uptake of bitcoin as a payment platform (which I happen to believe is bitcoin's primary use case). This is because no work has gone into scaling up transaction throughput, which has predictably suffered as a result of increased main…

> there is zero (actually negative) market uptake of bitcoin as a payment platform ... This is because no work has gone into scaling up transaction throughput No, or only partly so. The other, more fundamental reason why bitcoin will never be a payment platform, is that it doesn't behave as a currency, but as a commodity. The hard limit on the number of bitcoin is both the guarantee of its value and what makes it an…

> With these characteristics, nobody will ever want to use it as a payment method.

People have used gold as a payment method for millenia. If holding bitcoin is as attractive as you say it is, businesses will give discounts for bitcoin payment which can compensate the effect you describe.

In other words, if bitcoin is as attractive as you say it is, you would convert to fiat only when you want purchase something, and the merchant would immediately convert from fiat to bitcoin. Why would both parties in the transaction chose to transact in such an inefficient way?

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#107

Post by mirimir »

zizek23 wrote: post #55
Laforet wrote: post #12

And what is the point? Does the price prove that bitcoin has not failed? To me, bitcoin died sometime in 2013 when mining became hopelessly centralised, breaking the economic and security models Satoshi had set forth. The bitcoin thereafter has been a soulness Frankenstein animated by a mixture of ego, greed, and hubris. I don't want to make any predictions, but when the crash comes it will be over before you knew it…

Bitcoin can't die as it never succeeded. All the disingenuous claims made by early adopters have fallen through. Decentralization, control, anonymity, easy transactions, transactions costs, currency? How can something that has no use have value? Proponents continue to build castles and waste electricity hoping people bite so they can profit. But the game is over. Money is a social tool based on consensus, and today d…

> How can something that has no use have value?

It works well enough for me. I do stuff for people. They pay me in Bitcoin. I lease servers and stuff. And pay Bitcoin. All of that can be as anonymous as I like. So yeah, it works for me.

> Proponents continue to build castles and waste electricity hoping people bite so they can profit.

Sure, some investors do. Me, I wish that they'd find something else to screw up. If it weren't for all the damn miners, we could still mine on our own devices.

> Money is a social tool based on consensus, and today democracy and accountability, that has evolved with human societies however imperfect it may be.

So you say. I don't see any obvious connection between money and democracy or accountability. Money is what people use in trade. Trade is a private matter.

> Why would anyone give up this hard won rule of law and accountability to private individuals operating out of self interest peddling illusions about some imaginary 'freedom'?

So authoritarian jerks can't mess with them?

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#108

Post by SCdF »

bertolo1988 wrote: post #101
madshiva wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No bank can't create cash like they want. There's regulation, authority. Do you know how bank work? Bitcoin and all crypto currency are not secure, a lot of people lose money stole by hacker then why arguing that is secure? because there's some math behind it? There's no conspiracy with bank or governments, only people that want to be richer and richer, because of this stupid economy. The great democraty, this is the…

"No bank can't create cash like they want.", sadly they can. All they have to do is to lend some money.

Can you go into more detail about what you mean here?

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#109

Post by chx »

ckastner wrote: post #76
dreit1 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this supposed "law and accountability" led to things like the 2008 financial crisis. Didn't seem like there was much accountability then, so why should I trust that money supply? I know exactly what is going to happen to the bitcoin money supply, it's written in the code. Furthermore, hard forks prove that if you don't like the network, then you can leave and retain value. You can't leave the dollar without g…

> Because this supposed "law and accountability" led to things like the 2008 financial crisis. Didn't seem like there was much accountability then, so why should I trust that money supply? As someone working in the financial industry, the amount of regulations, internal audits, external audits, reporting requirements, etc. that financial institutions have to comply with is truly staggering. Sure, they 2008 financial…

Trust... someone typed in instead of copy pasting an Ethereum address, made a typo and lost five figures.

Re: Bitcoin has died 166 times, so far

#110

Post by jstanley »

Laforet wrote: post #53
ringaroundthetx wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And what is the point? Does the price prove that bitcoin has not failed? The price rising is validation for services on the periphery. Established services that can add a lot of utility for bitcoin. For example, the volatility problem is completely solved by CME Group and CBOE and the CFTC pursing and allowing hedging instruments on bitcoin. This opens up the market to many market participants, some of which are mu…

>The price rising is validation for services on the periphery. Apart from brand recognition, which application is best conducted on the bitcoin ledger than every other alternative? Please don't say "Store of value". >Established services that can add a lot of utility for bitcoin. How would you go about doing it? Bitcoin was not designed to have side chains and tokens pegged all over it and there is a reason why the I…

Bitcoin provides a way for 2 individuals, anywhere in the world, to exchange money without trusting any third party and without asking permission from any third party, and without their transaction being subject to censorship by any third party.

That's huge.

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