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Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

theguardian.com

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Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#41

Post by richthegeek »

yorwba wrote: post #10

The article voices a bunch of valid criticism, but I really wish it could have done so without turning environmental damage into a contest and using unsubstantiated superlatives. Is it not enough to criticize someone without claiming that they are the worst ? The jab at Trump felt misplaced as well.

The article was very clear that she not simply open to criticism but has done more, by her industry-driven policy decisions, to damage the environment than any other person. Literally, the worst.

It's not a secondary claim; it's the entire premise of the article.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#42

Post by qf303rjr3 »

shangxiao wrote: post #25
yorwba wrote: post #10

The article voices a bunch of valid criticism, but I really wish it could have done so without turning environmental damage into a contest and using unsubstantiated superlatives. Is it not enough to criticize someone without claiming that they are the worst ? The jab at Trump felt misplaced as well.

I feel like jabs at conservative politics are the norm now with a lot of journalism. A few weeks back an article [1] I read, from reddit, started with: …the dastardly Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor seem to be a great gift to the Alt-Right’s xenophobic nationalists. Interesting article, but unnecessary (and daresay incorrect?) jab at the start. [1] http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-american-who-buried-a-kamik...

If you're going to quote an article, you shouldn't leave out context that changes the meaning of the sentence you're quoting -

  "The 75th anniversary commemorations of the dastardly Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor
   seem to be a great gift to the Alt-Right’s xenophobic nationalists."
It's the 75th anniversary commemorations that seem to be a gift - not the attack itself (obviously).

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#43

Post by mixedbit »

lispm wrote: post #35
mixedbit wrote: post #33

I fail to understand why German automotive industry is lobbing pro diesels. All German car makers make both gasoline and diesel engines, if diesels were banned or taxed to be more expensive customers wouldn't resign from buying cars but would choose some other available option (gasoline, hybrid, electric).

There have been zillions invested in the Diesel, which would have been wasted. The Diesel is also seen as the more efficient engine: less fuel consumption and less CO2 emissions.

This is what I don't understand, it seems like a sunk cost fallacy. For each diesel sold, the auto makers sell one less gasoline car, the profits should stay the same.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#44

Post by readittwice »

sjwright wrote: post #34
lispm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without European (and incl. German) money Greece would be bancrupt and no longer in the Eurozone. Bancrupt banks in Europe would have helped no one, particularly not Greece. For the welfare of the people in Greece the greek government is responsible, not Angela Merkel.

Without being tied to the common currency, the Greek Drachma would have devalued relative to the Deutsche Mark, making Greek exports and tourism more lucrative. Had this been able to occur, the impact to the Greek economy would have been far less. Instead, the common currency has greatly benefited Germany: had the Germans retained the Deutsche Mark, their currency would be valued higher than the Euro is now, making t…

Probably true, but that doesn't help anyone. Greece wanted to have the euro, they weren't forced to. They also knew from the start that devalueing your currency isn't possible anymore. Today their debts are in Euro not Drachme, now leaving the Euro doesn't change that fact.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#45

Post by readittwice »

lispm wrote: post #39
sjwright wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without being tied to the common currency, the Greek Drachma would have devalued relative to the Deutsche Mark, making Greek exports and tourism more lucrative. Had this been able to occur, the impact to the Greek economy would have been far less. Instead, the common currency has greatly benefited Germany: had the Germans retained the Deutsche Mark, their currency would be valued higher than the Euro is now, making t…

Greece imports a lot -> gets more expensive. Greece with its Drachma would have been a welcome victim for currency speculation. This was tried with the Euro, too, but it failed. People also think in economic terms, but the Euro is a political project. Countries like Greece wanted to be in the Eurozone. It was not Germany's wish. It was the wish of Greece and the population of Greece also wanted it - not just the poli…

> Greece imports a lot -> gets more expensive. I just want to add: This could also be a good thing, since people in Greece are more likely to spend money on goods produced in Greece. This could help their economy.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#46

Post by StavrosK »

lispm wrote: post #31
sgift wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the welfare of the people in Greece the greek government is responsible, not Angela Merkel. That is correct, but one could ask that people don't go around and say "Germany saved Greece!", cause no .. it didn't. It saved its banks.

There is a lot of propaganda involved. Sure Greek politicians did not blame themselves for taking huge amount of credit money and wasting it. Without paying back the money (-> to the banks), Greece would have been bancrupt within days. Thus saving the banks saved Greece from being bancrupt. Without banks and without government money from the outside, nobody would have given Greece any credits...

I don't know if you've been to Greece recently, but, at this point, a one-off bankruptcy looks much preferable to this slow and constant descent into poverty.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#47

Post by wink »

guitarbill wrote: post #40
hannob wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This largely coincides with the Green Party's rise in popularity. The green party could probably profit much more from those topics if one had the feeling they'd be more trustworthy in those issues. Particularly in the diesel emissions scandal the greens are a big failure - the reason being that the greens form the government in southwest Germany (Baden Württemberg), which has a strong car industry.

I'm from Baden Württemberg, and I'm not sure how strong the car industry is any more. For example, every year a bit more autobahn has a speed restriction applied to it. I think you're spot on though. The diesel emissions scandal is made worse by the fact that diesel was promoted in the EU because the CO2 emissions tend to be lower than petrol. This is reflected by diesel vs petrol prices in France or Germany (diesel…

Where do you get this rise from?

2009 - 10.7%

2013 - 8.4%

2017 - 8-10% (projections)

Only B-W has a ruling Green Party, I'd they they're still mostly at 10% everywhere else.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#48

Post by ahartmetz »

sjwright wrote: post #34
lispm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without European (and incl. German) money Greece would be bancrupt and no longer in the Eurozone. Bancrupt banks in Europe would have helped no one, particularly not Greece. For the welfare of the people in Greece the greek government is responsible, not Angela Merkel.

Without being tied to the common currency, the Greek Drachma would have devalued relative to the Deutsche Mark, making Greek exports and tourism more lucrative. Had this been able to occur, the impact to the Greek economy would have been far less. Instead, the common currency has greatly benefited Germany: had the Germans retained the Deutsche Mark, their currency would be valued higher than the Euro is now, making t…

It's not all great for working Germans either. German companies are doing great while inflation-adjusted salaries are flat or decreasing depending on industry - for its high productivity level, Germany has become sort of a low wage country. The current low unemployment rate has a high price.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#50

Post by lispm »

readittwice wrote: post #45
lispm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greece imports a lot -> gets more expensive. Greece with its Drachma would have been a welcome victim for currency speculation. This was tried with the Euro, too, but it failed. People also think in economic terms, but the Euro is a political project. Countries like Greece wanted to be in the Eurozone. It was not Germany's wish. It was the wish of Greece and the population of Greece also wanted it - not just the poli…

> Greece imports a lot -> gets more expensive. I just want to add: This could also be a good thing, since people in Greece are more likely to spend money on goods produced in Greece. This could help their economy.

It could, but for example Greece lacks energy resources and imports a lot of oil and gas. That's not easy to replace and that still would involve imports. The top imports are fuels, machines/computers, pharmaceuticals, electrical equipment, ships, ...
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