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Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

theguardian.com

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Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#11

Post by lispm »

kome wrote: post #5

Very good article. The industry-government nexus in Germany is indeed super powerful and underrated: other countries call it corruption, in Germany is called corporatism. In the last few years we saw it in action, with important repercussion on the global level: for example, the way the Greek crisis was managed it had to do much more with the safety of German banks, that with the welfare of Greece ( https://www.esmt.…

Without European (and incl. German) money Greece would be bancrupt and no longer in the Eurozone. Bancrupt banks in Europe would have helped no one, particularly not Greece.

For the welfare of the people in Greece the greek government is responsible, not Angela Merkel.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#12

Post by guitarbill »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #3

Basically Germany will miss the goal of a 40% reduction by 2020 with only reducing CO2 by 30%. Beside coal/gas power, mostly from closing nuclear power plants. For example a quarter of CO2 emission in Berlin is coming from two Vattenfall coal power plants. Other effects are larger increase in people and economic growth. I have been buying renewable energy for 15 years, but not many/not enough people in Germany care.…

This largely coincides with the Green Party's rise in popularity. Sadly it seems they have no real plan, only ideology. IMO this is why they've prioritised shutting down nuclear power over coal power, because demonstrating against nuclear power is almost required to be a member, but sensible policies are not.

I don't think you can blame Merkel, she doesn't really have a hard stance on most topics - if anything, the opposite is true, and her position on many things is vague or pragmatic. It seems to me that the popularity of Martin Schulz and the AfD are a direct response to that.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#13

Post by isolli »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #2

As a person, she's extremely obstinate. For a leader, this trait can be advantageous - after all, who wants a leader who changes their minds all the time - but for the rest of Europe it's a curse. Somehow she is unable to admit she made some serious mistakes, and we're all suffering because of it.

Agreed. While I have only respect for her, I'm afraid that through ignorance and rigidity her policy choices during the Eurozone crisis have set European integration back a generation.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#14

Post by guitarbill »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #9
marze wrote: post #6

Germany's generous subsidy and build out of solar, while solar was still really expensive, was key in driving the cost down which now the whole world benefits from. Huge credit there. But bio fuels are an unmitigated disaster. Electric ground transportation is the future.

> Electric ground transportation is the future. It's a relatively less evil, for now. We still haven't found a good way of dealing with old batteries and it's a huge environmental problem.

Do hydrogen fuel cells have major issues, other than the chicken-and-egg problem of hydrogen refueling stations?

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#15

Post by mtgx »

baybal2 wrote: post #8

This sounds alarmistic to me. Diesel emissions are exaggerated. European emission standards set limits for diesel emissions that are just minutely different from gasoline emissions. American limits for diesels are notorious for being more restrictive than for gas engines. All of that considered, diesels are plainly more economical and more efficient on pretty much all common engine size ranges

First off, the big problem with diesel is not CO2, but NOx gases, which are way more immediately dangerous to human health. That's why some cities are thinking of banning them ASAP right now.

Second, besides VW which was creating even 40x the emissions than the standard you mentioned required, pretty much all the other car makers were creating 10-15x as many emissions, too, thus making that "strict standard" way looser. Forget Euro 6 or Euro 5. These cars weren't even compliant with the 25 year old Euro 2. In other words, all of these car makers "passing" the emissions tests over the past two decades has been all a bad joke played on the EU population.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/19/many-car-...

Finally, a new stricter (than Euro 6) standard was supposed to arrive by 2021 or so, but Merkel once again intervened to make the standard even looser (by +50% more emissions allowed) than the previous one, which would be a first in the history of the Euro emissions standards, which have become increasingly stricter not looser, so far. All thanks to Merkel.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/oct/24/petrol-c...

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/jun/28/angela-m...

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#16

Post by isolli »

lispm wrote: post #11
kome wrote: post #5

Very good article. The industry-government nexus in Germany is indeed super powerful and underrated: other countries call it corruption, in Germany is called corporatism. In the last few years we saw it in action, with important repercussion on the global level: for example, the way the Greek crisis was managed it had to do much more with the safety of German banks, that with the welfare of Greece ( https://www.esmt.…

Without European (and incl. German) money Greece would be bancrupt and no longer in the Eurozone. Bancrupt banks in Europe would have helped no one, particularly not Greece. For the welfare of the people in Greece the greek government is responsible, not Angela Merkel.

The better solution was to let Greece default. Then the banks who had bought Greek bonds without proper due diligence would have borne the cost of their mistakes, not innocent bystanders. These were mostly French and German banks, and it would have been up to their respective governments to bail them out (or not).

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#17

Post by hannob »

guitarbill wrote: post #12
_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #3

Basically Germany will miss the goal of a 40% reduction by 2020 with only reducing CO2 by 30%. Beside coal/gas power, mostly from closing nuclear power plants. For example a quarter of CO2 emission in Berlin is coming from two Vattenfall coal power plants. Other effects are larger increase in people and economic growth. I have been buying renewable energy for 15 years, but not many/not enough people in Germany care.…

This largely coincides with the Green Party's rise in popularity. Sadly it seems they have no real plan, only ideology. IMO this is why they've prioritised shutting down nuclear power over coal power, because demonstrating against nuclear power is almost required to be a member, but sensible policies are not. I don't think you can blame Merkel, she doesn't really have a hard stance on most topics - if anything, the o…

> This largely coincides with the Green Party's rise in popularity.

The green party could probably profit much more from those topics if one had the feeling they'd be more trustworthy in those issues. Particularly in the diesel emissions scandal the greens are a big failure - the reason being that the greens form the government in southwest Germany (Baden Württemberg), which has a strong car industry.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#18

Post by sgift »

lispm wrote: post #11
kome wrote: post #5

Very good article. The industry-government nexus in Germany is indeed super powerful and underrated: other countries call it corruption, in Germany is called corporatism. In the last few years we saw it in action, with important repercussion on the global level: for example, the way the Greek crisis was managed it had to do much more with the safety of German banks, that with the welfare of Greece ( https://www.esmt.…

Without European (and incl. German) money Greece would be bancrupt and no longer in the Eurozone. Bancrupt banks in Europe would have helped no one, particularly not Greece. For the welfare of the people in Greece the greek government is responsible, not Angela Merkel.

> For the welfare of the people in Greece the greek government is responsible, not Angela Merkel.

That is correct, but one could ask that people don't go around and say "Germany saved Greece!", cause no .. it didn't. It saved its banks.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#19

Post by lispm »

marze wrote: post #6

Germany's generous subsidy and build out of solar, while solar was still really expensive, was key in driving the cost down which now the whole world benefits from. Huge credit there. But bio fuels are an unmitigated disaster. Electric ground transportation is the future.

> Electric ground transportation is the future.

You can already use trains in a large scale: most larger European cities are well connected and have extensive local transport systems. Next the public sector will invest a lot of money into electrical busses and their infrastructure. E-Bikes are already very popular. Cars will take a few more years...

Merkel's government had ambitious goals, but industry and public was not ready - without substantial financial incentives, which would have been another problem.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#20

Post by speedplane »

guitarbill wrote: post #14
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Electric ground transportation is the future. It's a relatively less evil, for now. We still haven't found a good way of dealing with old batteries and it's a huge environmental problem.

Do hydrogen fuel cells have major issues, other than the chicken-and-egg problem of hydrogen refueling stations?

Expensive materials (platinum) and difficulty making them small enough for a car.
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