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China Bans Bitcoin Executives from Leaving Country, Miners “Preparing for Worst”

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Re: China Bans Bitcoin Executives from Leaving Country, Miners “Preparing for Worst”

#151
post #107
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was some democracy in the late 1800s to early 1900s. But it didn't gel with the Confucian ethos. Stephenson's Diamond Age is actually pretty informative.

This is incorrect. There was no period of Chinese democracy during that time.

This is correct. Chinese Democracy was released in 2008.

https://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Democracy-Guns-N-Roses/dp/B00...

Re: China Bans Bitcoin Executives from Leaving Country, Miners “Preparing for Worst”

#152
post #27

So the PBOC is taking further steps to plug the leak. Not unexpected. China has exchange controls. Internal yuan cannot be easily converted to euros or dollars. There are limits on capital outflows. The controls are leaky; the classic leak is to send all your relatives to Hong Kong loaded up with the maximum allowed amount of yuan in cash. The current limit is about $50K/year/person. Small leaks are thus tolerated. B…

Is the control on the yuan really that tight? How are Chinese citizens able to buy such a massive amount of premium Seattle/SF real estate with ease? Isn't ownership of foreign real estate a big leak?

Re: China Bans Bitcoin Executives from Leaving Country, Miners “Preparing for Worst”

#153
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would someone do that? Seems like a solution in search of a problem.

What do you think is easier to accomplish? A technical white paper that doesn't bs with buzzwords, or a business plan filled with marketing fluff? Think about it. You could spend hours working on a business plan that nobody will ever read. With the ICO route, you can reach an audience like never before.

You can do the same with platforms like Kickstarter. What does ICO bring to the table besides attempting to skirt laws about accreditted investors?

Re: China Bans Bitcoin Executives from Leaving Country, Miners “Preparing for Worst”

#154
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could mine, even if it was unprofitable. Spending 10 million in mining costs to produce $5million in bitcoin is still a win for a lot of people trying to move money out of China.

Does that work - I think the mining reward is 25 BTC, about 75,000 USD. So for 7.5million thats being the winning miner 100 times. I honestly don't know what setup it takes to be reasonably certain to be the winning miner these days - does anyone have stats on how many miners and how often one might be expected to "win"?

The stats don't really matter, because the market is designed to equilibrate the price: it costs 7.5 million to mine 7.5 million's worth (in expectation, net present value and all that), and always will. If you're worried about reducing your variance you can join a pool rather than mining directly.

Re: China Bans Bitcoin Executives from Leaving Country, Miners “Preparing for Worst”

#155
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a 24/7 market; the price responds a lot faster than other markets Weighted by volume or capital flow, most markets are 24/7.

Could you explain what this statement means?

I think their point is that while most investors in e.g. equities (stocks) regard out-of-ours trading as "not counting" because it's a much smaller volume than in-hours trading, the amount of money that moves into or out of stocks in out-of-hours trading is still much larger than the amount that moves into or out of bitcoin (at any time). So it doesn't really make any sense to say that stocks are a 9-5 market and bitcoin is a 24/7 market.

Re: China Bans Bitcoin Executives from Leaving Country, Miners “Preparing for Worst”

#156
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there has recently been : - promise to block all VPN services from accessing blocked website - law to hold chat group owners responsible to what the members say (controverse political talk or gambling for example can lead to arrests) - most of casual barbecue that were held in the streets last summer have been forced to close this year in my area - tightening and more scrutinity on visa applications for foreigner…

You mean to tell me, if I go visit China they may _force_ me to do a drug test?

Only if you are unfortunate enough to be in a bar which gets raided at the wrong time (ie bars which are believed to have had drug dealers or drug users in the past) OR if you were in contact with a dealer who got busted.

It happens but it's still pretty rare

The scary thing is that if you are tested positive I believe you would end up in jail for a month before getting deported, even if you consumed legal drugs in your country (ie cannabis)

If you deny to take the test you would definitively be in trouble, at best you would get deported

Re: China Bans Bitcoin Executives from Leaving Country, Miners “Preparing for Worst”

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China has exchange controls Bitcoin is irrelevant, compared to still-tolerated and massively-more voluminous alternatives, for capital controls. This is a red herring. Bitcoin was fine until ICO promoters started pilfering from the masses. In any case, China is currently loosening its capital controls [1]. This isn’t a problem that can be constrained to China. China is just reacting first. The rebranding of this ac…

Bitcoin is irrelevant, compared to still-tolerated and massively-more voluminous alternatives, for capital controls. This is a red herring. At one point all crypto had reached $160B in market cap. Not small at all and risked getting much larger. Lesson #1: if China wants something done they will do it. No courts, no public discussion, nothing. Don't be surprised if these execs end up in jail.

It's refreshing that a country can act this quickly even if we don't agree with the action. In many countries this would require several meeting of understanding, a dozen committees forming sub-committees, accusations of corruptions and biased interest and several related court cases, and endless other shit. IMO it's actually a very smart move, to ensure a fair and complete dissolution, and if those execs dont have the bitcoin to distribute back to participants (i.e. they've been speculating or liquidating client BTC) then they're going to jail. China doesn't want the egg on face that Mt.gox / Mark Karpeles caused.

Re: China Bans Bitcoin Executives from Leaving Country, Miners “Preparing for Worst”

#158
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there has recently been : - promise to block all VPN services from accessing blocked website - law to hold chat group owners responsible to what the members say (controverse political talk or gambling for example can lead to arrests) - most of casual barbecue that were held in the streets last summer have been forced to close this year in my area - tightening and more scrutinity on visa applications for foreigner…

Why would they ban blue cheese? Is drug use high among foreigners or is that just a harrassement control to keep them in mental check, so they fear the unpredictability of the government and the power they hold over individual fate?

Because it is called so, if the mold on the cheese was red, I believe its consumption would be only encouraged.

But blue cheese, many blue stuff is banned in China, not only cheese.

Re: China Bans Bitcoin Executives from Leaving Country, Miners “Preparing for Worst”

#159
post #27

So the PBOC is taking further steps to plug the leak. Not unexpected. China has exchange controls. Internal yuan cannot be easily converted to euros or dollars. There are limits on capital outflows. The controls are leaky; the classic leak is to send all your relatives to Hong Kong loaded up with the maximum allowed amount of yuan in cash. The current limit is about $50K/year/person. Small leaks are thus tolerated. B…

> China has exchange controls Bitcoin is irrelevant, compared to still-tolerated and massively-more voluminous alternatives, for capital controls. This is a red herring. Bitcoin was fine until ICO promoters started pilfering from the masses. In any case, China is currently loosening its capital controls [1]. This isn’t a problem that can be constrained to China. China is just reacting first. The rebranding of this ac…

> The rebranding of this action away from fraud and towards capital controls is dishonest

It seems like either you're accusing `Animats of arguing in bad faith or you worded that rather poorly. Or my reading comprehension is on the blink.

Re: China Bans Bitcoin Executives from Leaving Country, Miners “Preparing for Worst”

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is irrelevant, compared to still-tolerated and massively-more voluminous alternatives, for capital controls. This is a red herring. At one point all crypto had reached $160B in market cap. Not small at all and risked getting much larger. Lesson #1: if China wants something done they will do it. No courts, no public discussion, nothing. Don't be surprised if these execs end up in jail.

It's refreshing that a country can act this quickly even if we don't agree with the action. In many countries this would require several meeting of understanding, a dozen committees forming sub-committees, accusations of corruptions and biased interest and several related court cases, and endless other shit. IMO it's actually a very smart move, to ensure a fair and complete dissolution, and if those execs dont have t…

Do you think there'll end up being due process with this approach? And fair trials? I wouldn't be so quick to endorse a dictatorship's approach to law and justice.
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